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I figured the title might get someones attention..

Anyways, I came across it at the top of the news headlines on google at some point earlier. Had a good laugh. Make sure you read the comments too.

I don't particularly have much interest in the Leaf because the I1 obviously works wonders for me and my intended uses.. but I know it's not the pointless vehicle that this writer is trying to make it out as. :mad:

Electric Cars Are An Extraordinarily Bad Idea - Forbes

The one comment about Californias annual fuel budget certainly made me think what the logic is with our transportation solutions on the home front.. just imagine if all that money stayed here!
 

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NGV/CNG Stations and Prices North America and Europe

I would have to agree with all that was said, now where is that CNG station :)
In Canada, use of compressed natural gas in vehicles has been going on for thirty years, and as well, you'll find there are quite a few stations in the US and Europe. There's seven "NGV" [natural gas vehicle] public stations in my city alone. Across the country there's 143 to date: British Columbia, 54; Alberta, 12; Saskatchewan 10; Ontario 68; and Quebec 2.
To get the big picture, here's the link to the map for the USA, Canada and Europe for all CNG stations and prices. There appears to be quite a big price spread depending on location.
 

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I agree with most of this but subsidies to promote electric cars help stimulate the development of electric battery technology that could lead (long term) to a competitive option over other energy sources. Yes it does not make financial sense but he fails to look at the long term implications.
Free market will only go so far to wean us off foreign energy sources as long as oil is relatively cheap Americans will continue to waste energy at unsustainable levels, 80% of that $ contributing to our deficit.
Personally I would like to see purpose built dual fuel vehicles Diesel/CNG Gasoline/CNG, we have the technology.
 

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The article brings up some good points, but I disagree with it's overall sentiment.

This is a new technology. If we abandoned all new technology just because it was fledgling, where would we be right now?

It's hard to see into the future. The electric car is a step in the right direction, and obviously it isn't going to be adopted overnight. By the time there are millions of electric vehicles on the road, these problems will be taken care of.
 

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I work in the EV industry and these articles are a dime a dozen. Media loves to feed on peoples fear of the known.

It gets annoying after awhile with the same ridiculous arguments against EVs. I have my own against gas vehicles. Articles like this are written like they just discovered gravity and this is a breakthrough discovery on EVs. Since when have batteries performed poorer in cold weather??? When has buying a any NEW car ever been a good financial decision that pays you back??? My co-worker has a Nissan Leaf and pays $0.4/kWh charging off peak and charging stations are FREE for now, talk about cheap transportation. As it turns out when you drive your car like you stole it, it doesn't get its EPA rated MPG either... Add snow and poor traction to the mix and it gets poor economy too. What bout driving downhill coasting? I bet you could get a 200mpg range driving from flagstaff to new mexico!!! EVs refuel just like your cell phone, how many of you have talk time anxiety? What if you do? Just opportunity charge at your desk or something, same thing with EV's. You dont have to go hunting for the cheapest fill station and go out of your way to fill it up in a few minutes twice a week. The gas station is EVERYWHERE instead. As far as range goes, you also dont drive these things until they are dead THEN sit around with your thumb up your *** until they are charged. Thats ridiculous and what this article implies. Would you rather have a full tank of gas every time you walk out to your car? Because thats more of what its like. If you do get stranded on the road, AAA already has quick charge boxes to drop off so you can charge back at level 2 for 30 mins and have enough power to get you 15 miles off the road to a safe recharge location.

But here is the truth to the whole ideological change in transportation. This is just the start of the tipping point. The technology will only get better and cheaper from this point out. People are scared of the unknown. But from the amount of Nissan Leafs/Volts I see driving around everyday in San Diego (5 a day or so), and how many people are use the charging station in front of my work. I know that the public is catching on to how awesome electric propulsion is, and they realize all the benefits associated with it. Seeing those vehicles on the road validates that what I'm working on everyday is the future, like it or not. My next vehicle purchase will be an EV if I don't convert my insight to one first. Faster than a corvette and orders of magnitude more efficient than a prius. I still have my other gas guzzler for recreation and the rare (very expensive) long road trips and towing.

Cliff Notes: Louis Woodhill is a douchy idiot.
 

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In Canada, use of compressed natural gas in vehicles has been going on for thirty years, and as well, you'll find there are quite a few stations in the US and Europe. There's seven "NGV" [natural gas vehicle] public stations in my city alone. Across the country there's 143 to date: British Columbia, 54; Alberta, 12; Saskatchewan 10; Ontario 68; and Quebec 2.
To get the big picture, here's the link to the map for the USA, Canada and Europe for all CNG stations and prices. There appears to be quite a big price spread depending on location.
Thanks for the info. Looks like some price gouging is starting already. Does anyone know what pressures are used in the CNG units? Could you use a home Compressor for refueling?
 

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In Canada, use of compressed natural gas in vehicles has been going on for thirty years, and as well, you'll find there are quite a few stations in the US and Europe. There's seven "NGV" [natural gas vehicle] public stations in my city alone. Across the country there's 143 to date: British Columbia, 54; Alberta, 12; Saskatchewan 10; Ontario 68; and Quebec 2.
To get the big picture, here's the link to the map for the USA, Canada and Europe for all CNG stations and prices. There appears to be quite a big price spread depending on location.
Thanks for the info. Looks like some price gouging is starting already. Does anyone know what pressures are used in the CNG units? Could you use a home Compressor for refueling?
 

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Thanks for the info. Looks like some price gouging is starting already. Does anyone know what pressures are used in the CNG units? Could you use a home Compressor for refueling?
You're welcome. We're right next to the major refineries here so we get it close to the source. The last time I looked at it over a decade past, home compressors off the house line were a possibility, but would be much slower than the public station. Stored pressures in the CNG tank on a car or truck is are typically 3600psi in the large cylindrical tank with about a 200 km range for a v6 car. It's impractical for smaller vehicles given the available tank size and range as yet, leaving a good niche for electric vehicles, albeit perhaps with decided winter limitations.
Fuel cells may provide an interesting hybrid application of the two technologies.
 

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The article brings up some good points, but I disagree with it's overall sentiment.

This is a new technology. If we abandoned all new technology just because it was fledgling, where would we be right now?

It's hard to see into the future. The electric car is a step in the right direction, and obviously it isn't going to be adopted overnight. By the time there are millions of electric vehicles on the road, these problems will be taken care of.
This is why I am thoroughly disgusted with the article. It's just your typical conservative diatribe. They don't beleive in progress... just low taxes.
If we wait for the free market to push Green Tech we'll have to wait for every last drop of oil to be drawn from every last reservoir on the planet.
 

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Perfect car

I own Honda I2, but still believe that the article raises some valid points.
In my opinion, the perfect car is just around the corner, 3-5 years in the future. It will be a plug-in gasoline/electric hybrid with about 30 miles all electric range.

No range anxiety, much lower cost compared to all electric car due to a much smaller battery, and drastic reduction of gasoline consumption (all electric daily commute for most people, gasoline engine required only for longer trips).

Basically, we are talking about the 2015-16 model plug-in Prius or Accord.

Chevy Volt is a also a valid effort in this direction, but way too expensive and inefficient when driven only on gas.
 

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It's likely going to take a breakthrough in battery technology for electric vehicles to become mainstream. Or gasoline at $10/gal. I agree that PHEVs will likely be the transition to pure electric vehicles, but it's only a matter of time before the ICE goes the way of the dodo, at least for automobiles.

A gallon of gasoline contains about 36-37kWh of energy.

The Internal Combustion Engine is a terrible machine - and I'm one of the biggest ICE fans out there. If we had a battery capable of storing 36kWh in a package even 4x the size of a gallon of gasoline from the beginning, the Internal Combustion Engine powered automobile would have never existed. Electric motors are superior in every conceivable way.
 
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