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Discussion Starter #1
So whats your take on this? Im sitting here looking at the screen thinking "should I reserve one? part of me says yes, you cant beat the price. The other part though says "what if all this is hype and nothing gets built". Now I know they have a "refundable" deposit but...if they up and decide to not make it and file bankrupt ect then have fun getting your money back
 

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Ya they are pretty cool, I hope they can make it, but I doubt it, once states start throwing safety laws on them and make them conform to passenger car standards they will probably die.
I would not put money down on one if you already have a gen 1 Insight. If they go into production, just wait it out and get a 2nd year one with all the bugs ironed out, in the meantime you will just have to hypermile to get that same mileage.
As long as they stay as motorcycle classification they have a good chance. The should just hit up Japan and grab reman engine and tranny combos for now and stuff them into their chassis, Japanese pretty much scrap their cars at 10 years of age due to the cost to keep an older vehicle there. There is an endless supply of 600cc engines with CVT trannies there they run in their small cars.
 

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Ive seen eco vehicles come and go. Remember the Smart or Zap? The Smart once imported lost its mpg it had when it was in Europe. The Zap was considered a motorcycle and required that license and insurance in many states.

Or, it could fizzy out altogether and the CEO pays the top levels of management a bonus and locks the doors. :cool:
 

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I'm very interested in seeing where it's going. Their manufacturing facility is over in Shreveport, Louisiana. It's not that far from me really. I heard the facility used to make the Hummer which I find hilarious.

It would be considered a motorcycle in most states. Here in Texas, it does mean that a class M would probably needed to be added to your license which requires a $200 weekend class. However, you can get cheaper insurance motorcycles here. The liability only policy for my Vespa is $75 a year and gets me a multi-policy discount.

If you put the maximum reserve down it's good for a $500 discount and if they actually start production in a month or two and produce as many as they think they will, you could maybe get the car before the end of the year. But yes, there a chance they could go bankrupt or that the car will be crap. At the minimum it's likely they'll have some production delays do to unforeseen issues. I've thought about it though; maybe if I hadn't just bought my Insight. I think they mentioned in one of there videos of possible hybrid and EV versions in the future. I could see the EV, but I don't think it's got the room for both systems.. maybe.
 

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Another take

I'm very interested in seeing where it's going. Their manufacturing facility is over in Shreveport, Louisiana. It's not that far from me really. I heard the facility used to make the Hummer which I find hilarious.

It would be considered a motorcycle in most states. Here in Texas, it does mean that a class M would probably needed to be added to your license which requires a $200 weekend class. However, you can get cheaper insurance motorcycles here. The liability only policy for my Vespa is $75 a year and gets me a multi-policy discount.

If you put the maximum reserve down it's good for a $500 discount and if they actually start production in a month or two and produce as many as they think they will, you could maybe get the car before the end of the year. But yes, there a chance they could go bankrupt or that the car will be crap. At the minimum it's likely they'll have some production delays do to unforeseen issues. I've thought about it though; maybe if I hadn't just bought my Insight. I think they mentioned in one of there videos of possible hybrid and EV versions in the future. I could see the EV, but I don't think it's got the room for both systems.. maybe.
Love the concept and it's a cool-looking vehicle. What stops me from putting a deposit on one are 2 things. One, I'm getting 75 mpg plus in my 2003 Insight without trying hard. Two, I had the experience of putting a deposit on the late-lamented Corbin Sparrow some years back, waiting a year for production to start, getting my deposit back then watching from the sidelines as early Sparrow owners worked through bugs. I think the previous post suggesting to wait for Gen2 of the Elio is sound advice.

Ray
 

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Ya they are pretty cool, I hope they can make it, but I doubt it, once states start throwing safety laws on them and make them conform to passenger car standards they will probably die.
I have an "all-in" non-cancellable reservation and have been following Elio closely. Nobody anywhere has suggested that states would "throw safety laws on them" and make them conform to passenger car standards. Where did you get that?

Further, the Elio will already meet passenger car safety standards. They have asked NHTSA to test it to passenger vehicle standards! They are engineering it to achieve a five-star car safety rating.

I would not put money down on one if you already have a gen 1 Insight. If they go into production, just wait it out and get a 2nd year one with all the bugs ironed out, in the meantime you will just have to hypermile to get that same mileage.
That's reasonable advice. I'm shopping for a used Insight to hold me over until Elio delivers. During the year+ wait, the Insight will likely pay for itself vs. my current inefficient commuter car. When (if) I get the Elio, I'll sell the Insight. If they never deliver, just another year of driving an Insight will save me what I spent on the Elio reservation. :D
 

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Ive seen eco vehicles come and go. Remember the Smart or Zap? The Smart once imported lost its mpg it had when it was in Europe. The Zap was considered a motorcycle and required that license and insurance in many states.
The Smart was not intended to be an economy car. It was intended as a city car. That fact somehow got lost when it was brought to the US, probably because even though it's a city car it got better mileage than most American cars.

I can't speak to the Zap, but driving the Elio will not require a helmet in all but five states, and likely no states by the time it reaches the market. Most states do not require a motorcycle license for fully-enclosed, ride-inside three-wheelers.
http://www.eliomotors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/helmetlaws.pdf

I hope the Elio is still considered a motorcycle by the time it reaches the market as insurance and registration are cheaper than a car!
 

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Thats good to know as I live in VA. I thought the 3 wheel front/rear driver passenger seating arrangement apex was kind of cool.

Wow, imagine driving your car while wearing a helmet? :D
 

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I would also wait until I can walk into a dealership, or at least at gallery (as in Tesla), to pay for a car. Or I would want the assurance of verification that cars are rolling off the assembly line before I would jump in line.

But, WHY jump in line anyway? Are you just trying to help the startup at any cost? There are plenty investors to help them (people who are trying to make a buck), so I would not try to elbow them out of the line. I agree with most before me to just wait to see and drive the vehicle before committing.

@Cobb,and @ Fuelish, and OP: I think Smart is doing OK for a small company. The Smart ED sales is growing multifold each month! And it's the CHEAPEST and ONLY CONVERTIBLE EV in the US. That's something :) Lease one if you can live with the EV's limitations on 90% of your drives, and start saving money and HELP THE ENVIRONMENT at the same time on DAY ONE!!! Don't look at why it wouldn't work for you, figure out HOW you could make it work. (And you most likely CAN if you drive < 80 miles per day). Buy ANY electric car, and you are guaranteed to love it! Or I'll buy you a beer.

WATCH THIS AD!!! ;) Smart ED vs. Mustang GT/Audi/Cayman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1iJJZfB7i0

Great Deal on Smart ED:
new electric cars. custom mini electric vehicles. smart USA

EVs are 1/3 of cost to operate than ICE competition:
eGallon and Electric Vehicle Sales: The Big Picture | Department of Energy
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Or, it could fizzy out altogether and the CEO pays the top levels of management a bonus and locks the doors. :cool:
That is my exact reason for concern. I was rather confident until I was going through the FB posts and noticed one saying they are STILL developing the motor among other things(was very recent post). It made me think well where did the MPG #s come from then? Thin air? Im not in dire need for one. My thinking is/was hey, its cheep, suits my commute well, and would let me side line the g1 for repairs when needed. I can wait it out though-I dont need a lemon lol.
 

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Well, yeah, how can you take pre orders for a car and demo it across the country if you dont got the engine figured out yet? Isnt that the thing that determines the mpg? :confused:

I read something they are going to loose the right to use the factory they are currently in as the agreement or lease or what ever was running out. Why ramp up production, get employees, molds, dies, etc, etc, etc if you are just going to move soon?
 

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Well, yeah, how can you take pre orders for a car and demo it across the country if you dont got the engine figured out yet? Isnt that the thing that determines the mpg? :confused:
As the owner of an Insight you should know that it is just one factor in determining the MPG. At highway speeds the majority of energy is spent pushing air out of the way. You can use a less efficient engine if you have to push less air out of the way and still get better MPG.

As for pre-orders, many pre-orderers took the gamble before Elio even announced what they were going to do for the engine. They will probably fail. If they don't fail it will be a milestone in efficient vehicles.
 

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The Smart was not intended to be an economy car. It was intended as a city car. That fact somehow got lost when it was brought to the US, probably because even though it's a city car it got better mileage than most American cars.
So true!!! And I can tell you why: It is because it does SO WELL on the highway, and does so many other things almost as well, or better than most compacts. (Especially the ED.) The much-maligned clutchless manual transmission turns a lot of people off.
 

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I was looking for a parking spot downtown, and directly across the store I was visiting, there was a grey Smart ForTwo pulled all the way forward in a parking space. I took advantage of the rest of the space, still avoiding the risk of getting ticketed by zealous attendants who prey on cars with bumpers overhanging the footprint of the spaces.

Back to ELio: Best of luck. Looks like a cool little ride, but I don't see how it can be made for $6800. Even the Can Am starts at $10K, right? [EDIT: Just looked up Can Am - http://can-am.brp.com/spyder/spyder/spyder-rs.html Starts at $15K!!! ]

PS: Oh, yeah, the other Smart owner had fed the meter for two hours, sponsoring my 15 minute visit. ;) (I did throw some extra quarters just to make myself feel less of a "scammer".
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I realize the MPG has many factors, but its like they just dreamed up a mpg number and now are trying to find a way to do it. I would think with all the engines out there they could just use something already made. A small diesel would be a awesome addition to this. Heck, even a motorcycle motor would work. I would be half tempted to just ask them to sell me the car at a discounted price and Ill mock up my own drive line.
 

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It made me think well where did the MPG #s come from then? Thin air?
Nope. See, they've got these new-fangled contraptions called "kompooters", I think, that do "stimulations" or something. :D

No new car built designed in the last 20 years even gets off the drawing board before the automaker has fully simulated the design and knows how the car will perform, give or take a few percentage points. They have to do that to know whether it's worth the cost to start making real parts in meatspace. I guarantee the Insight was fully simulated long before they started soldering NiMH cells together or pounding aluminum panels.

So where did Elio get it's numbers? Computers. Computer simulations of the design using readily-available software will give one very good estimates of the frontal area, Cd (coefficient of drag), mass, and tire rolling resistance. Once those values are known, calculating how much energy is required to accelerate and maintain a vehicle to a certain speed is child's play.

Once you know how much energy is needed, you can begin specifying your engine. The piston engine is over 150 years old now and really, really, really well-understood mathematically. Plug some numbers into widely-used mathematical models and figure out what your BSFC - brake specific fuel consumption - is and then you'll know how much gas you'll have to burn to get the energy needed to get your vehicle to perform.

Paul Elio sat in front of a computer for a few years simulating and modifying his design and the number it spit out was 84 MPG.

Will the Elio hit that number? Who knows. Probably not if the history of every production vehicle ever is any guide. Probably won't even make it to production, again if history is any guide.

But if he does make it and even if he's off by 15%, 70 MPG is way more than the current all-gas MPG champion's EPA rating: The Insight!
 

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freezin4, you own the white smart? Nice, maybe one day I can take it for a spin? :cool:

I had visited checkered flag smart in VA Beach in 09 when they came out, but they didnt take trade ins and test drives for serious buyers only. It seemed doable with the room inside, but I had wondered how squirrelie it got at 70 mph with semis and others passing you doing 90. :grin:

I work for the gumberment and I see a lot of them in the lots and some owned by big n tall people too.
 

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....They have to do that to know whether it's worth the cost to start making real parts in meatspace. I guarantee the Insight was fully simulated long before they started soldering NiMH cells together or pounding aluminum panels. -----I am sure you are aware that the G1 was a losing proposition in terms of "money making", right. Cost way more to make than they were selling for. But Toyota had the Prius in Japan since '97, and Honda wanted to beat them at various achievements. BTW, I just reread some historical articles about how big of a [relative] success the G1 was: they initially planned to only produce 4500 in 2000, and raised it to 6500 when demand was unpredictably greater.

So where did Elio get it's numbers? Computers. -----I would like to know if these were the same computers that spit out the $6800 price. You can't even get a 1 liter bike for that much in the US.
...............
 

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-I would like to know if these were the same computers that spit out the $6800 price. You can't even get a 1 liter bike for that much in the US.
Well I just bought an Insight for $3000 and it has air conditioning. :dunno:
 

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freezin4, you own the white smart? Nice, maybe one day I can take it for a spin? :cool:

I had visited checkered flag smart in VA Beach in 09 when they came out, but they didnt take trade ins and test drives for serious buyers only. It seemed doable with the room inside, but I had wondered how squirrelie it got at 70 mph with semis and others passing you doing 90. :grin:

I work for the gumberment and I see a lot of them in the lots and some owned by big n tall people too.
Yes. No problem, I make people test drive it every chance I get. Everyone drove it at the last Mid-Atlantic meet. Most people are surprised by the interior room, headroom. I enjoy the smooth and instant torque the most. Impressive stable highway ride too! I can't tell you how I know, but the car will do 83 mph on the highway. Next time you are up this way, just let me know.

Well I just bought an Insight for $3000 and it has air conditioning. :dunno:
That's what I'm talking about!!! So if you can get two or three used Gen 1s for the price of a new Elio, wouldn't you be ahead? :) I remember when new Yugos were $3999, but most people preferred a used Civic.
 
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