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Discussion Starter #1
I have talked about this before so if you read it , please skip it if you have no input.
My 2000 Insight (50K) has a miss in the engine between 2100 and 2500 rpm.
It doesn't happen always, but when it does it is very obvious. I have found it happens mostly in 5th gear . The dealer tech tells me it is telling me to downshift , although no down arrow appears. And it doesn't "lug," it "misses." He says the computer gets confused and is wanting to switch to IMA.
I have learned to overcome the problem by either giving it more gas (accelerating) or shifting to 4th where I can drive at any rpm above or below the 2100-2500 range.
I have found 4th gear is not so bad in terms of mpg and I find myself freeway driving in 4th frequently
 

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miss?

Dick,

what do you mean it misses? Are you saying it misfires? That would be serious and I would not take any BS from a dealer claiming it's normal! Anything above 1200 rpm is fine for 5th gear. 2000 to 2500 is my normal cruising rpm and the engine is very happy there in 5th gear.

Find someone to take you serious and have him check the car out thoroughly!

Good Luck!
 

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Dick...

That can't be good. Which dealer are you going to? I live in San Diego and want to stay away from him.
 

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Re: Dick...

Insighter said:
That can't be good. Which dealer are you going to? I live in San Diego and want to stay away from him.
The dealer is Hoehn Honda in Carlsbad. He has been pretty good but I don't use him too much; just problems like this and recalls. There is a new (independant?) dealer under construction in Escondido I am looking forward to. I really dislike these dealeer "chains" which have several dealerships for different cars under their name. Dick
 

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Re: miss?

Armin said:
Dick,

what do you mean it misses? Are you saying it misfires?

Yes, it is defferent feel than a lugging engine. We all know what that is like and without thinking downshift.

This is like a stutter, just lightly and repeatedly. I have not found any change to mpg other than I'm not getting the 75 and 80 I got when the car was new. But maybe that means the valves need adjusting. Dick
 

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Re: miss?

rapoe said:
This is like a stutter, just lightly and repeatedly.
I think I've felt something like that. I can't put my finger on what driving conditions it happens in, but I've noticed very slight hesitation while going at constant speed sometimes. I think it's with moderate throttle (not accelerating much).

But I never thought it could be serious. Just some VTEC artifact maybe? I cannot say for sure if this started recently or if it's always been there.

Maybe you are just a little more sensitive than most of us. (And I mean that in a positive way: I'm proud to have a sensitive gas foot :cool:
 

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Missing

I've driven Dicks Insight and it is a definate shudder. not an ignition miss. I believe it is in the "lean burn circuit", but could also be in the MAP circuit. Don't believe he has ever gotten a CHECK ENGINE light. Maybe a OBDII diagnostic check is in order.
 

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My experience with engine misfires on OBDII systems is that the monitors for such events are quite sensitive. The threshold for a misfire is frequently below the driver's ability to feel the event. But there are a few true random misfires that can elude capture. By definition almost always of no concern. And always _extremely_ difficult to isolate _IF_ there is a remedy.

A few years back HONDA was "caught" desensitizing misfire monitors and had to pay a heavy fine. I doubt they have attempted anything remotely similar to mask an Insight misfire "problem."


John K. Bullock
Knoxville, TN USA
 

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MYBRID shudders, too

Since reading this thread, I paid more attention. There is a definite shudder in my car. I guess I don't notice it most of the time, because the roads are so lousy that they shake the car a lot more!

This morning, I could feel it very well: 5th gear, the engine not quite warm (4 bars), but it was in lean-burn (thanks to hot-air intake). Going about 40mph or 1500 rpm at 100mpg. Speed was constant, so I was very light on the throttle. The car was shuddering continuously for a minute or so, until the road surface got bad enough to mask it again.

Again, I attributed this to an artifact somewhere between VTEC, Lean-Burn, hot air intake, not quite warm engine, and a number of other excuses. But then, maybe yours is worse?
 

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Misfire

I'm seeing the same thing on my car: a misfire, in that same RPM range. My car also goes into NOX purge way too often, about every 2-4 minutes, no matter what I do.

I've been suspecting a true failure of the Oxygen sensor. I have a solid-on MAINT R'qd light that I cannot turn off. I'm going in to the dealer tomorrow morning...will post to the group if I find anything...

JKB
 

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James, the maintenance required light is on a mileage timer of about 7500 miles. The Insight is simply telling you that it's time for required in-warranty service, and your dealer will know how to reset it. There is even a procedure listed on the main InsightCentral website:

http://www.insightcentral.net/KB/faq-ma ... MaintLight

First it blinks, then it goes solid glow.

Are you sure that's what it is, and not a check engine light (which indicates an actual problem detection instead of 7500 miles since last light reset).
 

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getting worse

Dick,

have you had any success addressing this problem? My car is starting to get worse rapidly! I could barely notice a light shudder when you first posted, but now it developed into a very noticable stuttering.

It mostly happens about 0.5 to 2 miles into my commute. At that point, I'm usually driving in 4th at 1500 - 2000 rpm with very light gas (around 75mpg) with the engine half-warm. Once the engine is fully warmed up and I'm on the highway, the symptom disappears entirely. If I open the throttle completely, the car accelerates just fine.

I'm still hesitant to take it to a shop. Need to wait for it to get so obvious even a mechanic can feel it!
 

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Here's a wild guess:

Maybe the ping sensor is setting off the reduction in compression to stop the engine from pinging. You say that when the car warms up, this effect goes away, right?

So, try using higher octane gasoline and see if the problem goes away. Even if you don't want to pay for this in general, it would be worth trying it for a tank or two as a diagnostic.
 

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pinging?

Will,

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't pinging most likely to occur at wide open throttle? The stuttering only happens with the throttle almost closed.
 

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You could be right. I'm not certain. I just expect pinging more when the engine is cold, which is part of the described symptoms here. I also don't quite understand how the Insight responds to ping. In a Saab Turbo, they open a valve that releases pressure from the turbocharger in order to reduce compression to stop the ping, but since the Insight doesn't have a turbocharger, I'm not sure what it does to stop ping. Perhaps a symptom of what it does is to cause this stutter effect noted here.

In older cars I've had, they usually ping at idle, so I don't think the throttle needs to be wide open to create ping. My main point is that if you try high-octane gasoline, there shouldn't be any ping. It won't hurt to try it and it won't cost much, but it could be useful as a diagnostic to know if the car's response to ping might be causing the problem since we never hear the car ping because the ping sensors hear it before we do and stop it before we notice.
 

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I also noticed my engine was shuttering when driving at a constant speed at 2000 RPM. It was doing it in 4 th gear as well.
I thought it might have been something to do with the fact that it was raining like mad during that 1 hour drive.
 
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