[ScottH]

Hi all,

I have a 2001 5-speed, and every once in a while (say every 2-4 weeks), the car stalls on me when I push in the clutch. This is not to be confused with an auto-stop, most notably:
1) It happens at higher speeds, say 25-40 mph
2) THe auto stop light does not come on, but RPM goes to 0
3) The oil light, battery light (not the IMA one), and brake light come on.
If I push the clutch down all the way and push in the clutch, it restarts as though it auto stopped.

Is anybody else seeing this? Is it "normal"?

 

[The Citrus Smoothie]

Yes, I get the same thing. You are right, it is the equivalent of stalling but with the clutch down and then with auto-stop restarting the engine. I have not had it looked at, as it does not seem to be much of a problem. I suspect a loose 12v battery connection or a new 12v battery is needed. Others might know better!

 

[LFree]

Stalling at highway speeds

When teaching my girlfriend how to drive a stick, she stalled it several times (low speed) and liked the 'feature' of being able to shift to neutral and back to first to re-start the car. Until then, I had always assumed it would only restart when in idle-stop mode, because it doesn't do it if you only turn the car on, without starting it first. So I guess my only real input is that the ability to restart from a stall by shifting to a gear is normal, but there must be somthing telling the car to shut off fuel (or spark?). Could this be a malfunction with the fuel-stop mode? I remember seeing something once that described changing the display to kilometers per hour to show fuel-stop mode - zero fuel consumtion can not be seen in MPH. If you experimented, would you be able to reproduce the effect only in fuel-stop mode?

 

[Motty82]

I too have noticed stalling and restarting in normal near 20 MPH driving. By forcing auto stop after the stall then getting back into gear, the engine always restarts. ??? Very odd...
Martin
Recycled
2000 5 Spd

 

[yusuke]

Hello from Tokyo. I've been reading this forum ever since I bought my car, but its my first time to post., my VIN# is in a different format when I tried to register, now it seems ok

I have the exact same problem, engine stalling when ever I downshift (i.e. push in the clutch pedal).

First time I drove the car, I had the engine stall when downshifting from 3rd->2nd, car just push-started it self. I tried to believe it was just one feature of this high-tech car.

but one day, I was almost rear ended when I downshifted while going up hill. The engine stalled, and the car just didn't have enough kinetic energy to push-start itself.. I pushed the clutch all the way in, trying my best to maintain speed in neutral. I waited another fraction of a second and the engine started revving again, but have decelerated to 20km/h or something till I could accelerate again (speed limit was 60km/h=35-40mph or so), that was almost a complete stop.

I tried to determine whether the car was malfunctioning or not. I cleaned the intake, adjusted idle rpm, got a brand new 12V battery, but the problem didn't go away. I just got so used to driving it as is, so I decided to find out what was really happening, and decided to take a 3000km=2000mile round trip from Tokyo to Kyushu, this is what I learned.

when decelerating at 3rd,4th&5th gear, releasing the throttle engages fuel cut mode, and continues until 18km/h (600rpm in 4th). Push in the clutch anywhere in between 1200-600rpm, and the engine stalls being absolutely no fuel being injected. This won't happen when auto stop feature is disabled (A/C on, outside temp is too cold, engine's warming up, IMA recal, etc).

sometimes, the engine would just restart it self at very close to 0 rpm's, but when it doesn't it needs help of the IMA motor to restart. At the exact moment, when the gear's in neutral (what happens when changing gears) restart is not performed.

When in neutral, with the clutch pedal pushed in, the auto-stop indicator stays off. Releasing the brake pedal, and putting in any gear won't restart the engine. Pushing in the throttle few times, shifting 2 times (like 3-N-3), turning the key does restart..
After speed goes under 31km/h (19mph or so), the auto-stop green light comes on, and only the battery alert stays on, until a complete stop or a restart.

I just got so used to driving it, to avoid this problem I touch the throttle very slightly to exit fuel cut mode before I push in clutch at any time. Most of the time, that means heel&toe shifting. So anytime I let anyone else drive, I have to leave A/C on which kills fuel consumption :X

Obviously this was not a normal behavior, so I took it to the dealer last week. The mechanic told me he couldn't find such problem on honda's online database, and this was the first time. Thats not unusual, because insight is the second worst selling car here, maybe less than 500 of a manual sold in 4years.

He told me there was a problem with EGR causing stall on some other Honda car, so I had it replaced under warranty. I just drove it home 120km today. The car felt a little bit easy-driving than before, but the problem didn't go away .

Everything else is perfect on the car, 2000 model bought used in like-new condition, and now have only 22000km on it. I suppose there is something wrong in one of the 3 computers. Are you people having the same problem as I am? Have any of you had the problem fixed, or diagnosed what was really going on test driving with something like laptop+OBD2? Any reply would be very helpful.

Sorry for a long post, and thanks to everyone participating in this very imformative site.

 

[Sparky5501]

This is off topic but I couldn't help being alarmed by your statement...

Thats not unusual, because insight is the second worst selling car here, maybe less than 500 of a manual sold in 4years.

Is it because it's a manual transmission, or Japanese people don't like the Insight? My family in Japan were very impressed when they found out I purchased an Insight let alone a Honda. I guess Insights are very expensive over there and Honda motor company is considered a rebel among the other Japanese motor companies. :wink:

I have an '01 "000146" but haven't noticed the stalling while downshifting. Are you double clutching? Shifting into neutral, pausing, then selecting the lower gear? If so this could be the issue. I straight downshift which might be the difference.

 

[The Citrus Smoothie]

when decelerating at 3rd,4th&5th gear, releasing the throttle engages fuel cut mode, and continues until 18km/h (600rpm in 4th). Push in the clutch anywhere in between 1200-600rpm, and the engine stalls being absolutely no fuel being injected.

This makes sense to me; the occasions when my Insight has 'stalled' is when I have been coasting towards lights or a roundabout and touched the clutch to drop into gear and take off.

Welcome to posting on this site Yusuke, I had the same problem with the Japanese VIN but adapted mine to fit the site requirements. My Sat Nav still thinks it is sinking into the Pacific

I would imagine sales are low in Japan for the same reasons as the rest of the world - a complete lack of advertising and promotion. Many car websites in the UK do not even feature the Insight in their drop-down lists; no wonder people don't know about this fabulous car.

 

[windmill]

Is the speedometer involved in the software of autoshutdowns? If not, an autoshutdown is ok, if it is.......well.....I don't know!! :wink:

Greetz Windmill

 

[yusuke]

Is it because it's a manual transmission, or Japanese people don't like the Insight?

I've read on a magazine that only 63 insights were sold last year. That includes the CVT. Almost all on the road are '99 and '00, never seen a '01 color before.

My family told me I was crazy, many people are too shy to drive such a strange looking car. This might be the reason why Toyota didn't cover the rear wheels on the Prius when it can beat the Cd of the insight if they did :roll:

Yes I do double clutch when traffic allows, also I always take my foot off gas for a very short time whenever I shift.
Someone who drives in a different way, keeping rpms high may never notice even if his/her insight has this same problem.

Many car websites in the UK do not even feature the Insight in their drop-down lists

Just recently Honda's official insight webpage was updated for the first time in 4 years. Obviously they don't want to sell too many :shock:

If not, an autoshutdown is ok, if it is.......

If speedometer on any car could affect its behavior, that would be too unreliable. I believe it just translates signals sent from the ECM.

I'm taking it to the dealer again tomorrow, hopefully the next component that gets replaced should be the answer :wink:

 

[Holicow]

My family told me I was crazy, many people are too shy to drive such a strange looking car.

This is Japan your talking about, right? As I recall from my time there, the Insight is relatively tame compared to a lot of other vehicles :wink:

Regarding the "stalling" : I have had that happen to me, too. but as I was slowing for a sharp turn, or coming to a light. The autostop light did come on, but I was NOT stopped. You would think the autostop would be set to NOT activate if the speed was NOT zero, eh?

 

[windmill]

Probably the software is waiting when the car is below 5 km/h, so the autostop function is activated and waiting then.

 

[Holicow]

Nope, at least 15 mph (what is that, 25 km/h?) It should be ZERO, not just close.

 

[windmill]

Sorry, it is km/hr

 

[yusuke]

Hello, I got my car back from Honda last month, after 5000km problem has not reappeared. Everything was alright, except the ECM.
Honda asked me to reproduce the problem a couple of times, because the dealer mechanic couldn't do it..

Honda won't tell me anything, but I guess they test drove a lot (1000km on odometer) and the engineers wrote a new program.

Now regen-braking behavior is completely different. Its much more intelligent, too complicated to write down in words. Maybe a program flow chart, but I would have to do some kind of reverse engineering to be sure :roll:

Yes, the engine's rpm still goes down, and sometimes to 0 with the oil light. Since I change gears very fast, when I have that rpm drop I sometimes engage the clutch before the IMA motor spins up the engine again.
But now the engine revs back up smoothly with a little shock, just like a "normal" car. So its not a safety concern anymore.

What I guess was happening before, the IMA motor was continuing regen regardless of the engine rpm. Therefore IMA motor giving magnetic resistance(i.e. max. torque for any electrical motor @0rpm)
which in some circumstances put my car in to a sudden stop.

 

[jrrs]

Regarding the "stalling" : I have had that happen to me, too. but as I was slowing for a sharp turn, or coming to a light. The autostop light did come on, but I was NOT stopped. You would think the autostop would be set to NOT activate if the speed was NOT zero, eh?

did it stall out, or was it autostop? i can say for certain that autostop can occur if your speed, "X", is 20 MPH > X > 0 MPH.

here's an observation about autostop thus far. i have an '04 manual with no A/C, it had 76 miles on it when we claimed ownership. as of parking it this evening, we have a total of 500 miles.

with the fan on ECON, and fan strength 1-4,i can induce autostop if:

- i am in gear, above 19 MPH, and apply the brake pedal, shift into neutral, and release my foot from the clutch. autostop happens as soon as i go below 20 MPH, and it will remain autostopped as long as i *continue to apply brakes* down to 0 MPH. at 0 MPH i can release the brakes and remain autostopped ( blinking light ). if i press clutch pedal, light goes solid; when i shift into first, the engine starts.

that condition i know to be true. however, there are other varied conditions which i have not yet exactly pinpointed, but to keep the thread on the topic of Engine Stalling, i will not elaborate on them here.

--edit--

about those "other varied conditions", i find that each one of them satisfies fully the four criteria outlined in: http://www.insightcentral.net/encyclope ... estop.html

i believe that list to be both accurate and complete.

 

[yusuke]

- i am in gear, above 19 MPH, and apply the brake pedal, shift into neutral, and release my foot from the clutch. autostop happens as soon as i go below 20 MPH, and it will remain autostopped as long as i *continue to apply brakes* down to 0 MPH.

In the above situation, before releasing the clutch pedal, putting the "shift position sensor" in neutral caused the engine to stall.

When it does so, disengaging the clutch "switch" would not restart the engine. Shifting in to any gear will restart the engine after appx. 400msec delay. So, when I engage the clutch-disc very quickly when transmission is in gear(i.e. down-shift) , the electrical resistance from the IMA motor and the "engine braking" caused the car to decellerate to a sudden stop at low speeds.

Now with the new software, it doesn't happen at all.

 

[miecz]

I'm intrigued with this new software notion, (maybe somewhat like upgrading a PC) :?: :!:

The thought of coasting in autostop from 20mph down would be great in a CVT; however, I thought the fuel supply cuts off durring coasting anyway.