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Wow i just filled up my gas tank with ethanol free gas. I can't believe how much more smoother my car is running. I'm getting 10 more mpg. Yes it cost more.its just like three more bucks after a fill up. But , I was doing about 55 mpg. Now I'm doing 65 or 66 give or take. This is insane to me. Thanks for the tips from all of you gave me.

2005 honda insight cvt. 114000.

Jack
 

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hmm, don't think I ever tried ethanol free in this car. I tried it in my miata but never noticed a difference...
 

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Wow i just filled up my gas tank with ethanol free gas. I can't believe how much more smoother my car is running. I'm getting 10 more mpg. Yes it cost more.its just like three more bucks after a fill up. But , I was doing about 55 mpg. Now I'm doing 65 or 66 give or take. This is insane to me. Thanks for the tips from all of you gave me.

2005 honda insight cvt. 114000.

Jack
Exactly the results I got from my first tank of E0 premium. Also the LAST time I got those results from E0 premium. In theory it should show a 2-3 MPG improvement, which is pretty much indistinguishable to me.

But I'll use it when I can get it, which I can't in Texas (which I don't understand -- we don't grow much corn here...)
 

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I tried a tank on ethanol-free gas once, and noticed maybe 2 or 3 MPG improvement. Sadly the increased cost and difficult availability make it a non-starter for me.
 

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think the driver is improving too

Wow i just filled up my gas tank with ethanol free gas. I can't believe how much more smoother my car is running. I'm getting 10 more mpg. Yes it cost more.its just like three more bucks after a fill up. But , I was doing about 55 mpg. Now I'm doing 65 or 66 give or take. This is insane to me. Thanks for the tips from all of you gave me.

2005 honda insight cvt. 114000.

Jack
Hi Jack,

My son and I also use ethanol free, and the actual improvement is about 2-3mpg. You can notice the difference in power, albeit slight. Overall, we don't save money with ethanol free, but we get a kick out of increasing the average mileage, so that is why we use it. I think the biggest improvement is in you. It takes a couple of months to learn how to drive these cars optimally. I think there is a Chevron in Destin that sells ethanol free, and it seems that anywhere near places that service boats will carry it. We have several stations near Lake Lanier that we use.

My 0.02 worth,
Tim Glover
 

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I experimented with a tank of E0 a few weeks ago. Cost about $1/gal more than E10 and only yielded a few more mpg. If it was more available in my area and similar cost that would be great, but I'll stick to E10.
 

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Just filled my car with shell v-power. Will see what it change.


In Quebec, we do not have many ethanol free choices.

Shell vpower and all esso grades.

Just to stop transforming corn to ethanol I will start using E0 gas. Same price here.
 

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I filled up with Marathon Ethanol free today ($3.99/gal) and got about a 4 MPG improvement in my commute.
 

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My son and I also use ethanol free, and the actual improvement is about 2-3mpg.

Of course, that depends on how much ethanol was in there. "Up to 10%" of course, might not mean 10%. I was doing MPG comparisons in another car, and the ethanol quotient was the single biggest factor.

But between straight gasoline and 10% gasahol, I saw a 2.5 MPG change - which was 10%. (Adding to the stupidity that is the ethanol boondoggle, that means that you actually burn more gasoline to go the same distances. Saving gas, it ain't.)

I ran some comparisons in the Insight when I first got it, sans IMA, and I saw about the same 10% difference (4.5 mpg or so.) Some days I fuel up, and it's obviously not as ethanol'ed - _much_ better milage, goes into LB easily....
 

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Now I understand that getting more MPG from going E0 is a good thing, but wasn't their a reason why we are trying to use E10? Shouldn't we support that?

If I remember right, I read something about the fact that the corn supply being reserved for production was being scaled back due to people driving less and cars becoming more efficient.

Regardless of that, I thought the reason why we were using E10 was to try and minimize our dependance on foreign oil and build a constant market for the farmers growing corn. If I am right, are we doing the right thing switching back to E0? I am not judging, just asking if my thinking is correct, should we reconsider that?
 

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I ran E0 in two Insights for 3-4 months and was not able to detect a lick of difference. And I looked for it.

I don't believe it's possible to reliably see the 3% difference in energy content between E10 and E0. Plus or minus a few MPG is just "noise", not attributable to any one thing, unless perhaps you have a TON of data.

The human factor can't be discounted. You really should be logging your average speed, TPS position, ignition timing, etc when making these comparisons. Otherwise, it would be all too easy for the mind to create what it wants to see. Would be interesting to stick an E0 sticker on an E10 pump and see what people thought of the fuel. ;)

Now I understand that getting more MPG from going E0 is a good thing, but wasn't their a reason why we are trying to use E10? Shouldn't we support that?

If I remember right, I read something about the fact that the corn supply being reserved for production was being scaled back due to people driving less and cars becoming more efficient.

Regardless of that, I thought the reason why we were using E10 was to try and minimize our dependance on foreign oil and build a constant market for the farmers growing corn. If I am right, are we doing the right thing switching back to E0? I am not judging, just asking if my thinking is correct, should we reconsider that?
That's not the reason for ethanol in our fuel.

Our fuel has ethanol in it because ethanol is an oxygenate. You've probably heard the term oxygenated gasoline - that is what it means. Basically, the alcohol molecule has "extra" oxygen atoms in it, which help the gasoline burn cleaner.

We moved to ethanol because of its renewable nature and less toxic properties. We were using nasty chemicals like MTBE and ETBE prior.
 

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Now I understand that getting more MPG from going E0 is a good thing, but wasn't their a reason why we are trying to use E10? Shouldn't we support that?
What reason? :)

Obviously the messaging isn't very clear.

The corn farmers are making out _very well_. The refiners much less so.

Regardless of that, I thought the reason why we were using E10 was to try and minimize our dependance on foreign oil and build a constant market for the farmers growing corn.
Those have been used as justifications, yes. But it's a huge ball of fail on just about every level. It makes transportation, storage far more difficult, and that's not to mention what it does to rubber, especially in smaller engines.

You can't pipeline gasoline after adding the ethanol, so you have to truck it once it's been added - and the ethanol also absorbs water (which might have a lot to do with the milage losses).

If I am right, are we doing the right thing switching back to E0? I am not judging, just asking if my thinking is correct, should we reconsider that?
Well, it depends what your goals and aims are. Many of the people promoting ethanol use/inclusion have widely varying rationales. Talk to them, and they've got really compelling reasons why you should not go to gasoline. From their lights, it's a bad idea.

I've yet to see a single really good reason. It decreases power, milage, increases total gasoline use, destroys especially small engine parts (I've got 2 leafblowers and 1 pressurewasher engines with dissolved fuel lines right now), adds markedly to the transportation cost (doesn't reduce the total price), and requires as much petroleum to produce as resulting in usable ethanol or more. (I've seen some claims that it's "down" to .95 gallons petrol to get 1 gallon ethanol, but that was an outlier.)

Nah, give us the gas back.
 

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The human factor can't be discounted. You really should be logging your average speed, TPS position, ignition timing, etc when making these comparisons. Otherwise, it would be all too easy for the mind to create what it wants to see. Would be interesting to stick an E0 sticker on an E10 pump and see what people thought of the fuel. ;)
Of course, from a pure experimental rationale, this is correct.

But I put several thousand miles on a Xterra running back and forth down the interstate, and saw a _very_ consistent difference of 2.5 MPG+ on gasoline, highway. (Same routes, speeds.) That's large enough that it's outside the likely realm of influence/wishful thinking.

MTBE is nasty stuff, but there's lots of other alternatives, IMO. You're right, that is a "good" reason I'd discounted - but you also didn't have to have 10% MTBE. (Nor was it as expensive as ethanol).

I still say, stick the ethanol in some oak barrels, wait a year, then you can get > $100/gallon for it.
 

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I'm a little confounded by all the ethanol hate.

Ethanol is a fantastic fuel. See: Brazil.

Ethanol could have been America's fuel of choice, but oil won mostly because it was so (incredibly) cheap back in the day.

The fact that it contains less energy per gallon than gasoline is irrelevant; it's just a matter of perception. If we used alcohol instead of gasoline, the Insight would still get better fuel economy than any other car - it would just be 45MPG instead of 70, while "regular" cars are getting 15-20MPG. If we'd have never known 70mpg, it would still be fantastic.I don't see people putting gasoline down because it contains less energy than diesel does. Well, unless perhaps you're a diesel car driver. ;) Seems like something as simple as shifting our MPG perception would be a small price to pay for a renewable energy source.

Edit: I admit I'm not up to speed on the whole issue. I'm thinking biodiesel is probably a better way to go. As noted, it contains more energy per gallon than gasoline does. But our emissions regulations would have to be toughened. Diesel exhaust is really nasty, you don't want cities full of diesel automobiles with bad emissions regs. See: India.

But you can be damn sure I'll have a fuel-alcohol distiller in place on my homestead/zombie apocalypse bunker. ;)
 

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You know there's some good points that I need to digest.
Its good to debate these things, to find the truth, and to learn from it.
If we can find a brighter future, it depends on open and honest discussions.
Sometimes I feel now, we are conditioned to not do this anymore, don't rock the boat.. conditioned to be pacified instead of working towards a brighter future for us all.

Good job gents.
 

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I'm a little confounded by all the ethanol hate.
Hate's a bit strong. I hate the *mandates* and requirements merely for political purposes. It's got (a few) benefits. Caveat emptor and all that.

Ethanol is a fantastic fuel. See: Brazil.
Yeah, but they're not turning whiskey into fuel. IIRC, they're starting with the sugarbeets, which is far more efficient. Corn's crappy for ethanol. Unless you like it as whiskey.

Ethanol could have been America's fuel of choice, but oil won mostly because it was so (incredibly) cheap back in the day.
Right. Also, it's not seasonal (or consumable). It's also more easily handled. Plus, more power, and it was going to be mined anyway...

Have drought, and you're short on food *and* fuel, if you're using food crops to make fuels.

I admit I'm not up to speed on the whole issue. I'm thinking biodiesel is probably a better way to go. As noted, it contains more energy per gallon than gasoline does. But our emissions regulations would have to be toughened. Diesel exhaust is really nasty, you don't want cities full of diesel automobiles with bad emissions regs. See: India.
The good news for that is biodiesel is lots cleaner, by definition. The bad news, again, you're burning food (or trading food acreage, same diff). I looked into doing it with some land we've got we plant soybeans on. ... Ignoring the entire conversion process (including the huge amounts of sulfuric acid, etc...) for the 200 acres we have under soybeans... It would result in barely more diesel than we use yearly... (Like, a net gain of under 30 gallons.)

Now, if they get the "switchgrass" or algae methods working in anything outside of a prototype lab...

But you can be damn sure I'll have a fuel-alcohol distiller in place on my homestead/zombie apocalypse bunker. ;)
For.. purely travel reasons, I'm sure!

In the meantime, don't forget wood vapor!

Wood gas generator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .. This is my next todo when I get time. Lots of wood around here, and can run most all ICE...
 

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I'm sure too - I might drink 1/4 a bottle of alcohol a year, lol.

I'm well aware of woodgas as well and would love to do that at some point too. :) There are lots of alternative energy sources, but they all have challenges.

I could only wish I had 200 acres. Wouldn't plant soybeans though, sunflowers! :) That's my goal, sunflower biodiesel, to power my generator:



It does seem that the plants that will grow on "worthless" land are the best bets for commercial scale operations, switchgrass like you said and another called jatropha that is used in India extensively apparently.

Interesting stuff.
 

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ah biodiesel. now your talkin! I make it for my truck (hence my name bio--dodge). I use rapseed or sunflower when i can. But anything fatty will work-just takes more lye and better washing of the fuel. I personally dont dislike ethanol, it has many uses, and if left in bio blends it will raise cetane numbers for more btus of energy. Its very safe for all new rubber parts as well--methanol is the killer of rubber (even synthetics after a time). The down side is 100% bio will gel at low temps. Ive yet to find any oil that will remain reliable for use near 0*f. With, or without antigel.
Now for cars and gas. Im thinking price wise it may be a wash. E85 is cheaper, yet uses more, so id have to figure out the mpg vs cost.
 

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destroys especially small engine parts (I've got 2 leafblowers and 1 pressurewasher engines with dissolved fuel lines right now)
I had an ancient Stihl weed whacker that had run perfectly every summer. Last year I tried E10 in it and it made it about 30 minutes before the carb diaphragm wrinkled up and would stall out under load. I had a Ryobi piss out its tank-full of gas last week when the temperature got up (I guess pressure built up and the line burst.)
 

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I just filled with ethanol free. Drove 20 miles. Didn't notice a difference...
 
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