[William]

Does anyone know about this warranty? The linked article talks about California and five other states.... what other states?

http://sierraactivist.org/article.php?sid=42041
____
Bill

 

[Rick]

Well, I do know for the California emissions levels they have to warranty it for 10 years/150,000 miles. I don't know the specifics but I recall a while back reading the battery was considered emissions equipment. I think it would only apply if you were in california though.

 

[mrv]

Does anyone know about this warranty? The linked article talks about California and five other states.... what other states?

http://sierraactivist.org/article.php?sid=42041
____
Bill

Depends on which other states have adopted the CA emissions plan as of the year of your car...

On my 2001 Prius, the California emissions warranty is applicable in CA, MA, and VT.
On my 2004 Prius, the California emissions warranty is good in CA, MA, VT, ME, and NY.

The 2004 Prius' California emissions warranty greatly extends the warranty on the battery pack, thanks to the AT-PZEV specs.

I don't know what the specs are on the Hondas, though, but I assume that it would be spelled out in a similar explanation of warranties booklet like comes with the Prius.

 

[Rick]

Hmmm, so between 80,000 and 150,000 miles your car develops a bad pair of catylitic converters (somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,000 to replace) or needs a battery you temporarily move it to one of the above mentioned states, register is at a friends address, then woops... got a check engine light. Get new parts installed and conveniently the car moves back? Might almost be worth it.

 

[Guest]

Hi Rick:

___Sounds like a plan … Mums the word

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:2bc499ws][email protected][/email:2bc499ws]

 

[Mitch]

$2000 for catalytic converters?

$2,000 for catalytic converters????????

Aftermarket catalytic converters can be had for and installed for less than $70. That's what I paid for one for my CRX, a few years ago.

As for the second converter, I have one laying in my garage in my TX home that I'm willing to sell real cheap, if anybody is interested in buying it later on in the year. It's not even required for proper functioning of the car on the '00-'01 models, and no check engine light can be triggered. Thus I can't see why anybody would go and spend a fortune to get a replacement secondary for an '00-'01. There's probably an easy and inexpensive way to deal with avoiding a check engine light for a failed secondary converter on an '02+ model.

 

[Rick]

Yes actually they list for more. And you can't just weld on an aftermarket one. The Insight has the primary one integrated in to exhaust manifold. I mean I guess you might be able to rig something up if your a good welder and relocate the oxygensensors. But I'd be sol on my 02. I've got the 3rd sensor on the Nox converter so I doubt the car would be happy without it. It is on the exhaust side of the converter so it would read the final gas that would be going out the tail pipe. Still, the service manual says if you get the code for inefficient catylitic converters your supposed to replace them in a pair.

My parents own an emission repair business so I know all about this stuff. And yes, on vehicles with basic catylitic converter setups you can just cut the old one off and weld an aftermarket one in easily. But I had the car up on the lift a few times to change the oil and our Mechanics wandered over and took a look as I pointed out the dual catylitic converter setup and did a little expaining. They said that when the have the cat setup like that as the exhaust manifold that you are pretty much stuck with the manufacturer for a new one. Still, you get 8years 80,000 miles warranty on them anyways. Still, a rediculous answer from Honda isn't it?

 

[Willie Williford]

What catylitic converter.............HE..HE..HE...... :twisted:

 

[Mitch]

n/m

 

[Mitch]

Replacing catalytic converters on '02+ models

The primary catalytic converter isn't integrated into the exhaust manifold on my '00 model. In the '00 Helms manual, page 9-3, it shows there are gaskets on each side of the primary converter. The existence of a gasket indicates a separation of 2 parts, not an integration. I'd have to believe that Honda did likewise for the following model years as well. I can't see any reason why a good exhaust shop couldn't figure out how to weld in a cheap aftermarket converter and relocate the O2 sensors to get the job done. This looks to be simple customization.

As for the Nox converter: If that converter were to fail, and it was my '02+ Insight, I wouldn't spend $1K+ to replace it. I'd go and have a straight pipe or small resonator welded in place of the Nox converter, remove the wiring going to it, and buy an '00-'01 manual transmission ECU from a junkyard off of car-part.com for $125, and swap that in, thus eliminating the potential existence of a Nox check engine light code ever appearing. I'm assuming that this Nox sensor is the only ECU sensor addition that is different between the '02+ models and '00-'01 models. If there were other changes, which one can verify by comparing wiring diagrams, then this could complicate things from being a straight ECU swap. The replacement ECU would also need to be made compatible with the ignition keys.

Thus an '02+ Insight owner with MT can deal with a situation of 2 bad converters at a small fraction of $2,000. One should be able to have all the above done for under $400.

 

[Rick]

Hmmm, true. I guess the only question is would it be technically legal. Now that I look at it for a 01 the converter "kit" is now around $1,000. I recall it being more before. Still a bit much though. I suppose your solution wouldn't be the specail variety of converters honda would have, but the genius's at the emissions station wouldn't know what they're looking at so I suppose it's a viable solution down the road.

Still, I'd rather have them replace it further out than 80K miles if they're going to do it for free. :wink:

 

[Holicow]

Emissions regulations usually require all originally included equipment to be present as designed. Whether the inspector would have a clue what should be there is a different story.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

It really irks me to see fellow Insight owners failing in their responsibility to keep their Insights emissions legal.

Here in east Tennessee over the last 25 years or so we've managed to fill the valley's air to its ozone tolerant capacity. Ground level ozone is at the damaging level about 1/4 of the year now. We are second only to the Los Angeles basin for ozone days.

This effectively gives the inside of your lungs a "sunburn" and the increasing levels are something that my mucous membranes are feeling the effect of.

Your local area may take longer to get this bad, but with lack of proper emissions maintenance you'll get there too. Take a deep breath and hold it. It may be the last good air you'll get in a while.

I would hope the moderators of this board will exercise their ability and limit the discussion of _illegal_ emission modifications.

 

[Guest]

Hi Insightful_Trekker:

___Wwwooohhh, hold on there … It is one thing to say that you must install an OEM purchased CAT because it’s illegal not too but it’s an entirely other matter if the generic replacement that costs as little as $100 vs. $1,000 + for the OEM does as good a job or not. There is a generic replacement CAT industry and they supply CAT’s that do what the OEM was supposed to do. I am not saying it will perform the same as the OEM as I am not sure but it will still cut the emissions down as it was supposed too or you couldn’t pass the smog check in the first place.

___(off topic post content edited by moderator) An item that helps in terms of general tail pipe emissions is low sulfur gasoline. Although the nation will be LS compliant by 2006, your local AMOCO/BP’s Ultimate Premium is LS and will reduce your 5-speed’s emissions to ULEV std. vs. LEV std.’s without. It is too expensive for my blood so I just purchase AMOCO/BP’s regular unleaded and cannot wait for the day LS is mandatory from all stations in the very near future.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:1ttfh6e0][email protected][/email:1ttfh6e0]

 

[Yves M.]

Hi John and Wayne,

Common sense applies to the way we moderate the issues as it is when members/mods create and replies to treads.
So 'moderation' is a case by case thing.

I am not aware of the legallities in your area but those are different according to your location. We must think globally. For example it is not necessary to install OEM parts in Canada, but you can not just remove the cat (that is illegal).

[edited] P.S. This references to a line from John "moderators of this board will exercise their ability and limit the discussion of _illegal_ emission"

 

[Guest]

Hi Yves:

___You edited out some very good information that Insightful_Trekker as well as many others should have seen since he posted 2 paragraphs in terms of emissions alone. A PZEV based automobile actually cleans the air it drives through when that air is highly smog contaminated like the location he described! For the price he can purchase the particular PZEV I listed for, I am sure he would have also been interested given it will be his way of helping instead of harming his local environment.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:2zyj5k2j][email protected][/email:2zyj5k2j]

 

[Yves M.]

Hi Wayne,

I did not edit your post, it was done by an other moderator. We must have read the same issue at the same time. If I remember correctly, you have summarized the idea behind what was edited (some pzev cars are available at a lower price than an Insight).

On an other note, burning gas will produce CO2 even with a pzev. Adds to global warming. I have to admit that in the winter, global warming sounds great. We had -20 C about a week ago in Quebec city and it was around the first day of Spring.

 

[Guest]

Hi Yves:

___Sorry, I assumed it was you given your post immediately afterwards. My apologies.

___In any case, mileage and therefore CO2 is definitely the 5-speed Insight’s best achievement but in the case of Insightful_Trekker’s location, he could well be dead from SMOG related exhaust emissions long before Global Warming ever takes him down …

___As for the cost of that particular PZEV, it isn’t just a lower price, it is half the price and its brand new! Something I hope Insightful_Trekker could take advantage of in any case. I am currently thinking of doing the same by getting rid of the relatively new 4-Dr. ULEV and replace it with a brand new and much better equipped 5-Dr. PZEV of the same make and model …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:19zv2d0t][email protected][/email:19zv2d0t]

 

[cakley]

:shock: Didn't think this board would turn out to have keyboard [bad word edited by moderator] moderators... sad very sad

 

[Yves M.]

Hi, [as a mod]

The point shown by the edition of the other mod was to try to stay on the topic and keep the subjects Insight related.

The tread being about the Extended IMA batttery warrenty, please try to stay on the subject.

The general idea applies to all members and to mods too, me.

Thanks for taking this into consideration