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Their website says orders ship 4 business day after ordering. Mudder provided the link 5 days ago. Assuming that business days are M-F, I suspect that the earliest orders won't ship until tomorrow or Thursday.
 

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I just purchased two additional 18S modules, giving me QTY4. I would rather have the 48S LiBCM than the 54S. But the price is too good on these 18S modules. If I can locate one 12S module at a later date, then I can sell two of these 18S modules. But, at this price it makes more sense to purchase QTY4 18S modules than to purchase a used battery pack (for even more money, just for the purpose of pulling out a used 12S module from it.)
 

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Is it bad that I'm hoping the 12s availability dictates shifting the project to 54s so I get my horsepower?
The original project goals were to support 42S & 48S. This was of course before we found a literal truckload of (only) 18S modules. Since that discovery, I've focused on 48S, given that it no longer makes sense to support 42S (which requires twice as many constrained 12S modules per vehicle).

While I was laying out the RevA PCB, I determined I could fit another 12S module on the PCB, thus allowing up to 60S support on LiBCM. However, my plan at the time was to not actually populate the components for C49:C60. For reference, the components required to measure each bank of twelve cells adds around $30 to the material cost of the PCB. Therefore, an LiBCM PCB that supports 60S (and by extension 54S) will cost ~$100 more than a PCB that only supports 48S.

Of course now we've identified this truckload of 18S modules, so we should check that our initial design deliverables are still valid. To begin, it's certainly looking like the additional "because it fits" (C49:C60) circuitry might need to become standard on all PCBs. As I just mentioned, this will increase LiBCM's price by $100. I don't yet know what LiBCM will cost (since we're still prototyping the product), but my best estimate right now is that the 48S kit sales price is ~$900, and therefore by extension a 60S LiBCM kit sales price is ~$1000. FYI: As used in this paragraph, a 'kit' is everything but the lithium modules themselves. These are forward looking statements.

So the question then becomes... should those that initially purchased 12S packs be 'penalized' by having to pay the additional sales cost, for functionality they'll never use. IMO the answer is no; the 12S early adopters should be rewarded with a lower sales price. This is only reinforced by the fact that the original design goal included 48S, and quite specifically did NOT include 54S. Of course, I've now agreed to eventually offer a 54S option, but I remain focused on shipping the initial design.

The move to 54S is not as cut-and-dry as it may seem. There are many additional elements that require engineering effort to verify and validate. Given that I've already done all that work for 48S, it makes sense to press forward with the 48S design. To me, at the present moment 54S is feature creep, and I'm not entertaining it for the initial release.

...

So my questions to the early adopters (i.e. those that purchased 12S modules):
1a: Are you willing to pay $100 extra for an LiBCM that supports up to 60S (which can be used in the 48S configuration)?
1b: Are you interested in purchasing a cheaper LiBCM that only supports 48S (and is not upgradeable to 60S after-the-fact)?
2: Do you still want to use 48S, or are you interested in 54S (knowing that this will further delay the project while I validate the 54S design)?

For the beta testers: I intend to populate the components required for 60S on the beta units... and will initially only support 48S.
 

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18S+18S ordered.
Later I’ll add either:
12S, 18S or 12S+12S for a total of
48S, 54S or 60S, respectively, depending on how this project develops.
 

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Discussion Starter · #187 ·
Option 2 - 54S would be preferable. Would love to try and use only the center 60% SOC range of the pack here in Arizona.

Option 1a - 60S is not of interest to me personally because the 220V OEM DC-DC converter maximum would force individual cell voltage of 3.67V max. Possibly only 50% SOC of the G3 NMC cells?
 

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I just received notice from UPS that my batteries ordered from Jag35 last Friday are scheduled for delivery Thursday.
 

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Can any one please chime in on how to ship a Lithium battery domestically.

I found a source who would sell me a 12S module, but they weren't sure how to legally ship a Lithium battery.

It appears USPS will ship Lithium batteries: https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Can-I-Ship-Lithium-Batteries

I also found this: How to Ship Lithium Ion Batteries | Shipping School

If Individual Batteries Are Mailed Without Equipment:
  • The mailpiece must not exceed 5 pounds
  • The total watt-hour rating for each cell must not exceed 20 watt hours
  • The total watt-hour rating for each battery must not exceed 100 Wh
You Must Ship Parcel Select Ground If the Batteries are Outside of the Item they Power

George
 

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Linsight Designer
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because the 220V OEM DC-DC converter maximum would force individual cell voltage of 3.67V max. Possibly only 50% SOC of the G3 NMC cells?
Based on my previous testing, the "220 V DCDC cutoff" is a precision threshold. Charing the pack to 215 volts (probably) ensures the DCDC won't shut down. Formally testing this across many DCDC converters is one engineering task to verify prior to supporting 54S. Assuming 215 yields enough headroom, that allows 3.98 volts... which I'd just round up to 4.00 volts (216 volts @54S).

At present, I plan to set the default charge cutoff voltage to 4.000 volts. This is user-configurable, but IMO the slight capacity increase achieved by charging to 4.100 volts isn't worth the decreased battery lifetime.
 

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So is the 60s mentioned going to be after the DC to DC converter is figured out? You had mentioned in the other thread about finding out what was causing that limit and I think you said you could bump it to 250ish volts?
 

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60S is not on the docket at the moment. There are multiple things to engineer to get to that point. Not going to spend any effort thinking about it for now. It might work in the future.
 

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Ok, I saw you asking if we'd pay 100 more for 60s support which the answer for me is a resounding yes, I'd pay even more for higher if we can unlock the motor controller to add bigger igbts. I thought the mention of 60s support for more money meant it was more of a consideration vs a passing thought.
 

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To get to 54S costs the same as 60S... the underlying hardware works in 12S increments (e.g. 12/24/36/48/60).
 

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I'll wait until the main product is out since I know how important it is to the community to get out in a timely fashion but if you want to build up a bespoke product for pushing the system to the limits and quite possibly past them I have the funding and the willingness to accept things failing spectacularly to find said limits. I think the future of the ima is looking pretty bright and I wouldn't be surprised if we can get it to show up a naturally aspirated k-sight. That's my ultimate goal. Better than factory mpg performance while being a true hot hatch.
 

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I'm not so sure the IMA motor can best a K-swap... but I certainly enjoy your enthusiasm! My guess on the IMA motor's ultimate capabilities is probably somewhere around 50 horsepower, albeit very briefly and at great cost to long term reliability. To reach that limit, you'd need to replace pretty much everything in the OEM IMA bay (only the original IMA motor would remain).

Certainly the extra ~70 foot-pounts of torque off the line would be quite helpful for a 0:20 mph time, but after that my guess is the k-swap would win every time in every event.
 

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Sitting on 2x 18s only, same answer as Peter.
I respect your ability to deflect scope creep

1A Yes
1B No
2 Both
 
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