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Linsight Designer
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I'm confused, it's already 2022 xD. Winter has come and gone...?
I'm thinking 2022NOV/DEC

Out of curiosity, has anybody tried to figure out if these modules are purchasable new? Obviously it'd be hilariously expensive right now for non recall packs, but 10+ years down the road (assuming the 10 year figure for lithium life is accurate in our case), what happens with pack availability with the Samsung modules as well as the EHW5 modules?
Hopefully 10 years from now we find a suitable replacement module. The EHW5 form factor is looking pretty popular, so hopefully it catches on. Until solid state lithium batteries become commercially viable, we're going to have to keep finding newer modules every fifteen years or so.

The hardcore owners will just pony up and get these items remanufactured.
If there's even a modicum of demand, I'll design replacement parts as needed.
 

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00 MT
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59 Posts
Samsung modules showed up today, part numbers
LX68-10C790-G-PIA-3AB
LX68-10C790-G-PIA-3AA
Module numbers are all MP0217NS002A

Packing was.. pretty hilarious but they seem to be in good shape. Two of the 4 look brand new/carefully handled and the other two look like they had a little rougher journey to battery hookup. One tiny dent in the case.
 

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Linsight Designer
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4,114 Posts
Two of the 4 look brand new/carefully handled and the other two look like they had a little rougher journey to battery hookup. One tiny dent in the case.
Can you post a picture of the dent? There isn't much mechanical protection, so it's possible the dent is protruding into the actual cells... which is no good. I do wish the shipper would package these modules bigger... the boxes I received mine in were bulging because they weren't actually large enough to house the modules. Each 47 Ah FoMoCo modules contains the usable energy equivalent of 6.5 sticks of dynamite... we don't want that going off in transit!
 

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I'd like to note I finally opened the boxes I got from battery hookup. I received QTY 7 18s- and QTY2 18s+. I'm furious. I was supposed to recieve QTY 5 18S, and QTY4 12s. I now have only 1 full set, as I only have QTY1 12S. Luckily I got 4 18S+ from a good friend of mine, so I basically have 6 sets of 18s to go, but I'm lacking 12s, which are extremely difficult to get.
 

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insight 2006 MT insight 2005 MT
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237 Posts
This file is the list of battery module affected by a recall, on my 5 battery that I received 3 where affected by the recall.

On this link they talk about battery LX86 but I think they reverse the two number .
The battery the described are the same size, they are 12S on 2.07kWh.
There is some picture of the battery and the plate where they are normaly fixed.
A describtion of the way there cooled by the plate.
The name of a Ford PHEV vehicule that use that battery (the Ford Kuga PHEV)
e
 

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Linsight Designer
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4,114 Posts
@eprom I am aware of this recall and have the following additional information:
-The issue is that the machine that tab welds the busbars between the cells wasn't calibrated properly, which resulted in welds that can handle less current than the host vehicle was designed to source. We're using these modules at a substantially lower current level than the host vehicles they came from.
-The recall is only related to this tab welding issue.
-The recall is why all these modules are available.
-Based on my testing with my QTY5 recalled modules**, I don't anticipate any issues when using these modules in the insight.
-In the unlikely event that there are tab-related issues, it will only disable the IMA system... the ICE will still be able to provide power, so the issue isn't as severe as it is in the host vehicle (which shuts down entirely, leaving the vehicle inoperable).

**My test procedure to evaluate the impacts of this recall in an insight application:
-I charged each module at 175 amps for 10 minutes.
-While charging, I monitored each cell for errant-high voltage readings (none occurred).
-Note that it's possible none of my modules actually contained the defect. However, I read into the NHTSA recall and it looks like the issue is due to improper calibration (rather than uncorrelated defects).

...

In short, I do not anticipate any issues using recalled 47 Ah FoMoCo modules in the insight.
 

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Can you post a picture of the dent? There isn't much mechanical protection, so it's possible the dent is protruding into the actual cells... which is no good. I do wish the shipper would package these modules bigger... the boxes I received mine in were bulging because they weren't actually large enough to house the modules. Each 47 Ah FoMoCo modules contains the usable energy equivalent of 6.5 sticks of dynamite... we don't want that going off in transit!
I looked a little harder. One box of 2 packs looks great, the other box of 2 is rough.

The one I mentioned with the dented case still had what I assume is a bedding compound on it, and it has a dented cell underneath. The second pack from the box has a dent or two in the cells as well as a mildly abraded section and a badly abraded section. I don't know how acceptable this is, but it's not particularly confidence-inspiring.

Table saws Wood Automotive exterior Gas Bumper

Wood Floor Rectangle Hardwood Flooring

#1





Product Wood Bumper Audio equipment Material property

Wood Gas Musical instrument accessory Automotive exterior Kitchen appliance

Automotive tire Wood Stairs Bumper Automotive exterior

#2
 

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Linsight Designer
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4,114 Posts
My thoughts:
Audio equipment Wood Gadget Material property Gas

Assumption: Outer pouch enclosure is breached. I understand there's an outer adhesive label (visible as the black ovals), but it appears the punctures also goes through the plastic/metallized outer cell wall, too.

Automotive tire Wood Bumper Tire Automotive exterior

Assumption: Outer pouch enclosure is breached. It's possible this is actually just leftover adhesive, in which case this isn't dangerous, but even the (orange) depression in the bottom is unacceptable.

Wood Gas Machine Engineering Musical instrument accessory

Assumption: Inner anode/cathode layering compressed due to blunt force.

Wood Floor Automotive design Flooring Hardwood

Assumption: Inner anode/cathode layering compressed due to blunt force.

Bumper Wood Gas Office equipment Machine

Assumption: Formed sheet metal corner absorbed most energy; cell not appreciably impacted.

...

It's important to note that these raw modules don't have nearly as much mechanical protection as the EHW5 modules... the cast aluminum plates on each end are rigid, but otherwise all the other metal is very thin. The cells butt directly up with the stell folded metal, whereas on the EHW5 modules there's a several mm separation from the outer sheet metal to the actual cells.

I would contact Battery Hookup and tell them these modules are not as advertised and that you would like new modules. I also propose that these modules are dangerous to ship back to Battery Hookup, so if they want them back they should send you appropriate return packaging and shipping label.

I was previously uncomfortable with how Battery Hookup was sending these modules, but figured that since mine all arrived in perfect shape, that they were all doing the same... obviously that's not the case and we need to relay that to Battery Hookup.

Please don't store those modules anywhere where they could destroy property and/or people if they were to catch on fire. The chemicals inside these modules are violently reactive with air!
 

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That was what I assumed. I sent an email with pictures, it'll be interesting to see how they handle it. They have a good return policy on their website that says they pay return shipping if you're 'not satisfied,' which is nice to see. It always concerns me that sellers will just claim that the issue is a non-issue and refuse a return on the grounds of damage.
 

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Linsight Designer
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4,114 Posts
That was what I assumed. I sent an email with pictures, it'll be interesting to see how they handle it. They have a good return policy on their website that says they pay return shipping if you're 'not satisfied,' which is nice to see. It always concerns me that sellers will just claim that the issue is a non-issue and refuse a return on the grounds of damage.
Remind them how many potential ic.net customers have their eyes on this issue.

I want to stress how important it is that you not store these two punctured modules inside any habitable space!
 

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Mine look good but I do see a tiny bit of wear/scuff marks on the bottom of these two modules.

Rectangle Wood Grey Style Black-and-white


Should I be concerned about the abrasion posing a short circuit risk? Should I paint it with something?


Wood Material property Automotive exterior Wood stain Gas
 

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Linsight Designer
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4,114 Posts
As far as I can tell, these cells have a soft pouch, rather than an encased prismatic package. Typically it's quite easy to determine whether the cell is a pouch or prismatic. My first guess was that this is a prismatic package, but the bottom feels too soft to me (prismatic enclosures are typically either semi-hard plastic or hard metal).

Pouch cells have very high energy/power density, but the tradeoff is the cell wall membrane is quite fragile (e.g. 0.025"). If this is in fact a pouch cell - which again I believe it is - then any cuts/scrapes/damage are incredibly dangerous. Based on my non-destructive visual inspection, I believe the visible black outer covering is an electrical insulator, and directly underneath it is the fragile pouch, which is all that's preventing atmospheric oxygen from violently reacting with the electrolyte layers inside the battery.

I'm not trying to scare anyone, but rather I'm trying to keep everyone safe. IMO, it is dangerous to use these modules if ANY silver (the outer pouch) is visible below the black plastic insulator. There just isn't enough safety margin with this design if the black isn't entire intact.
 

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I wrote to them as a private customer (not a rep of IC) and voiced my(your) concerns. I have no real authority to act for InsightCentral on matters like this, but if enough customers voice concerns, we may get some action on packaging.

I invited them to read this thread, which is open to them.
 

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I'm not trying to scare anyone, but rather I'm trying to keep everyone safe. IMO, it is dangerous to use these modules if ANY silver (the outer pouch) is visible below the black plastic insulator. There just isn't enough safety margin with this design if the black isn't entire intact.
Battery hookup is replacing the battery at their cost, what should I do with the old one?
 
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