Honda Insight Forum banner
401 - 420 of 428 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
What do you supposed to differences between the 2 types 18S modules that they had listed today?

18x POWER CELLS! HONDA INSIGHT (14lbs)


18 BLUE ENERGY CO 3.7V 5AH EHW5 CELL MODULE (12 lbs)

Literally everything about them is different. The capacity is the only thing similar..
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
3,904 Posts
I can say with 100% certainty that the Insight modules are NOT ehw5 cells. And no, the W doesn't stand for welded. I plan to make a post in the "47AH fomoco" thread to straighten up several misconceptions you guys seem to be perpetuating on this forum.
I'm excited to hear your clarifying information.
FYI: We're only "perpetuating" "several misconceptions" because we don't know any better. There's no malice here; we're just ignorant. Thanks for educating us, if you so choose to.

Not sure why I'd help you, though, after the way you've treated me in a few threads so far. :(
I've sent you a PM. Please feel free to repeat anything in it publicly... that'll be your choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
238 Posts
@Battery Buyer

I'm going to apologize. Looking back, I think I was a bit rude to you. I was just very confused as you didn't really introduce yourself to the group or engage in any of our discussions. You were just trying to buy batteries and I thought there was a rule about having to make a certain amount of posts before engaging in the marketplace, but perhaps that was another forum. In many forums the marketplace is meant for active participating members.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
I'm excited to hear your clarifying information.
FYI: We're only "perpetuating" "several misconceptions" because we don't know any better. There's no malice here; we're just ignorant. Thanks for educating us, if you so choose to.


I've sent you a PM. Please feel free to repeat anything in it publicly... that'll be your choice.
No one said there was any malice. I've been dipping in and out of this forum for a while now, reading here and there, and it's just something I noticed continuing on. I hoped someone would stumble upon the correct information at some point, but it never happened. I joined a while back, and decided now was a good time add some input on that particular subject. I'm low on time, but I'm typing out a brief response in the appropriate thread.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
@Battery Buyer

I'm going to apologize. Looking back, I think I was a bit rude to you. I was just very confused as you didn't really introduce yourself to the group or engage in any of our discussions. You were just trying to buy batteries and I thought there was a rule about having to make a certain amount of posts before engaging in the marketplace, but perhaps that was another forum. In many forums the marketplace is meant for active participating members.
Yes, very rude to a newcomer. I understand, though, that a forum can feel like a family... and maybe you were just trying to protect yours from an outsider, or something? Apology accepted. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Hey, it seems like all the Panasonic/CMAX cells in the world randomly just sold out. Was that you battery buyer?

Do you happen to have any information on the cell life for the Cmax cells?
Nah lol

Cmax/Insight cells are horrible in comparison to EHW5 cells, regarding longevity. @mudder, in his test, has already seen a ~5% degradation in only 600 cycles. At that rate, a new cell would reach EOL of 80% in only 2400 cycles. Pales in comparison to EHW5 cells. Now, I admit that I didn't pay much attention to exactly how he's testing them... but still. Nowhere near EHW5 level cells.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
238 Posts
@Battery Buyer Do you have any insight on cutting bus bars and rewelding them after removing a few cells? If I'm going to use EHW5 then I need to convert one to 12S.

I figure I could use the 18S to 12S conversion kit that mudder is offering to maintain compression.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
@Battery Buyer Do you have any insight on cutting bus bars and rewelding them after removing a few cells? If I'm going to use EHW5 then I need to convert one to 12S.



Maybe I'm not following... what is it you'd need to reweld? Just cut, remove, assemble... no?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,865 Posts
It seems like I would need to make two cuts and remove cells from the middle and then weld the ends back or remove from the end and then weld in a terminal tab.
Just take a sawzall and go vrrrrrrrr, I'm sure it will be fine!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
238 Posts
Ahh, okay. Thought you were just needing to cut off the last 6 cells. Not familiar with whatever it is he's offering.
It's just a spacer to maintain compression and a new set of BMS cables for his super awesome G1 insight specific custom BMS (shown below).
Passive circuit component Circuit component Hardware programmer Microcontroller Electronic engineering
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
238 Posts
I don't have the sawzall but I do have the Milwaukee cordless Dremel.

Someone else recommended a good pair of metal snips.

Just take a sawzall and go vrrrrrrrr, I'm sure it will be fine!

If I attempt this, it will be outside in a well ventilated area.

There are a couple 36S EHW5 modules that I could buy to chop up, but then I would need a case to put them in. John's 18 to 12 kit reuses the old enclosure. The 36S enclosure is too big.

I'll try to start a new thread about this soon.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,865 Posts
I don't have the sawzall but I do have the Milwaukee cordless Dremel.

Someone else recommended a good pair of metal snips.




If I attempt this, it will be outside in a well ventilated area.

There are a couple 36S EHW5 modules that I could buy to chop up, but then I would need a case to put them in. John's 18 to 12 kit reuses the old enclosure. The 36S enclosure is too big.

I'll try to start a new thread about this soon.
Please don't blow yourself up, I was only joking, LOL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Battery Buyer

·
Registered
Joined
·
238 Posts
Right.

Would the cells explode if punctured or would they just catch on fire and I could run away?

I'll be really careful if I decide to do anything. I'm pretty good with a Dremel and metal snips sound like they could be a good option to

The EHW5 cells are 0.5 mm thinner but the enclosure is the same size so the spacers are wider. There's a pretty good gap to cut between.
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,865 Posts
Right.

Would the cells explode if punctured or would they just catch on fire and I could run away?

I'll be really careful if I decide to do anything. I'm pretty good with a Dremel and metal snips sound like they could be a good option to

The EHW5 cells are 0.5 mm thinner but the enclosure is the same size so the spacers are wider. There's a pretty good gap to cut between.
I'm not sure. I'd love to shoot a pack and see what happens.
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
3,904 Posts
Cmax/Insight cells are horrible in comparison to EHW5 cells, regarding longevity. @mudder, in his test, has already seen a ~5% degradation in only 600 cycles. At that rate, a new cell would reach EOL of 80% in only 2400 cycles. Pales in comparison to EHW5 cells. Now, I admit that I didn't pay much attention to exactly how he's testing them... but still. Nowhere near EHW5 level cells.
Just to clarify, I am testing whatever cells I have 'harder' than manufacturer tests them:

EHW5 manufacturer's testmudder's test
Charge current (amps)4052.5
Discharge current (amps)40~90
Ambient Temp (degC)2325-35
Forced air cooling?YesNo
Linearized SoC capacity reduction per 10000 cycles (%)4???**

**My first cell test data is not valid, as the cell under test was accidentally pulled all the way down to 0.000 volts (due to a data corruption issue caused by rain/dirt shorting out the datalogging PCB).

Regardless, whatever cell I'm testing is certainly 'good enough' to use in the G1 insight. What I mean by that is that age - not cycle count - is going to ultimately kill these cells... by a country mile. It's not even close. The QTY950 cycles I ran on the first cell is equivalent to driving the car hard every single day for three years... and only resulted in "5%" SoC reduction over ~QTY650 cycles (again, flawed data).

...

Let's look at cell#2, which has been under 'proper' test for QTY43 hours. It's certainly too soon to draw meaningful results, but thus far we've logged QTY349 complete cycles (averaging one complete cycle every 8.1 minutes). Right now cell#2 is losing on average 284 uA/cycle, which is ~-5.7% capacity per 1000 cycles. So actually it's only slightly better than the last test... right now. But as you may know, lithium cells tend to lose quite a bit of capacity over the first several hundred cycles, and then level off... so we'll need to wait maybe a week before we draw any "long term" conclusions.

Fortunately, as I mentioned above, 5% capacity reduction per three years of driving is pretty minimal, and certainly cell aging will be what kills these cells... not cycle count. That's ultimately all I care about. Whether or not an 'actual' EHW5 module performs better isn't terribly important; cell aging will kill them both, and that's all I care about.
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
3,904 Posts
I would very much love it if anyone more knowledgable than me regarding EHW5 cell identification could:
-send me either an EHW5 cell (I will gladly pay for it), or;
-send me a link to purchase a known-real EHW5 cell.

I want to test this cell to see how it compares to whatever cell I've been calling 'EHW5'.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Just to clarify, I am testing whatever cells I have 'harder' than manufacturer tests them:

EHW5 manufacturer's testmudder's test
Charge current (amps)4052.5
Discharge current (amps)40~90
Ambient Temp (degC)2325-35
Forced air cooling?YesNo
Linearized SoC capacity reduction per 10000 cycles (%)4???**

**My first cell test data is not valid, as the cell under test was accidentally pulled all the way down to 0.000 volts (due to a data corruption issue caused by rain/dirt shorting out the datalogging PCB).

Regardless, whatever cell I'm testing is certainly 'good enough' to use in the G1 insight. What I mean by that is that age - not cycle count - is going to ultimately kill these cells... by a country mile. It's not even close. The QTY950 cycles I ran on the first cell is equivalent to driving the car hard every single day for three years... and only resulted in "5%" SoC reduction over ~QTY650 cycles (again, flawed data).

...

Let's look at cell#2, which has been under 'proper' test for QTY43 hours. It's certainly too soon to draw meaningful results, but thus far we've logged QTY349 complete cycles (averaging one complete cycle every 8.1 minutes). Right now cell#2 is losing on average 284 uA/cycle, which is ~-5.7% capacity per 1000 cycles. So actually it's only slightly better than the last test... right now. But as you may know, lithium cells tend to lose quite a bit of capacity over the first several hundred cycles, and then level off... so we'll need to wait maybe a week before we draw any "long term" conclusions.

Fortunately, as I mentioned above, 5% capacity reduction per three years of driving is pretty minimal, and certainly cell aging will be what kills these cells... not cycle count. That's ultimately all I care about. Whether or not an 'actual' EHW5 module performs better isn't terribly important; cell aging will kill them both, and that's all I care about.
I'm not saying they're bad cells, or won't live for years in a G1, I'm just saying they don't hold a candle to actual EHW5 cells.
 
401 - 420 of 428 Posts
Top