Honda Insight Forum banner
421 - 440 of 442 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
I want to test this cell to see how it compares to whatever cell I've been calling 'EHW5'.
It's not "whatever cell you've been calling" an EHW5 lol... it's a Panasonic cell, basically a newer version of the Cmax 5Ah cell in a clear wrapper. Out of the 100s of them I have tested, my best ones are right at 5.5ah, with most being in the 5.3xx range when in good health.

One thing I definitely left out is, the Panasonic LiMn4O2 cells are 3.7 nominal voltage, while the Blue Energy Li(NiCoMn)O2 cells are 3.6. Not a huge difference, just another difference.
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
4,118 Posts
I'm sure you've already mentioned this cell's part number... and I just haven't found it. Can you tell me the part number, so I can stop using 'EHW5' (and replace it with the actual part number).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,372 Posts
I'm trying to follow the latest in this thread, but am getting confused. Are we saying that my 48S LiBCM which I installed back in February/March, with what I understood to be an EHW5 18S+, and an EHW5 18S-, and a converted EHW5 18S+ to a 12S+ is not actually EHW5, after all?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
I'm trying to follow the latest in this thread, but am getting confused. Are we saying that my 48S LiBCM which I installed back in February/March, with what I understood to be an EHW5 18S+, and an EHW5 18S-, and a converted EHW5 18S+ to a 12S+ is not actually EHW5, after all?
No clue what you have, but the easiest way for me to answer your question is... If your cells are blue and welded, they are EHW5 cells. If they are silver and bolted, they are Panasonic Insight cells.

I have no idea what this might change in the project you guys have going on here, if anything, but I just wanted to clarify which cells you guys are using so that you can actually buy what you are looking for. If you set out in search of 12s silver bolted modules, and are asking for EHW5s, you aren't gonna find any. Or will receive the wrong thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
I'm trying to follow the latest in this thread, but am getting confused. Are we saying that my 48S LiBCM which I installed back in February/March, with what I understood to be an EHW5 18S+, and an EHW5 18S-, and a converted EHW5 18S+ to a 12S+ is not actually EHW5, after all?
Yes, it's close to EHW5 but a cell made by Panasonic. It should still be pretty good, I believe Panasonic makes batteries for Tesla.
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
4,118 Posts
Are we saying that my 48S LiBCM which I installed back in February/March, with what I understood to be an EHW5 18S+, and an EHW5 18S-, and a converted EHW5 18S+ to a 12S+ is not actually EHW5, after all?
That appears to be the case. I agree it's been a confusing discovery process, but yes it appears we are just using "Panasonic Insight" cells.

No clue what you have, but the easiest way for me to answer your question is... If your cells are blue and welded, they are EHW5 cells. If they are silver and bolted, they are Panasonic Insight cells.
We're using Panasonic Insight cells.

I have no idea what this might change in the project you guys have going on here, if anything, but I just wanted to clarify which cells you guys are using so that you can actually buy what you are looking for. If you set out in search of 12s silver bolted modules, and are asking for EHW5s, you aren't gonna find any. Or will receive the wrong thing.
This doesn't change any technical component of the project... it just means we've been calling a hammer a screwdriver... so we have Panasonic Insight cells, not EHW5 cells. It's two blind men describing an elephant.

@Battery Buyer has mentioned that the Panasonic Insight cells don't last as long from a cycle count perspective, but in the G1 Insight application that doesn't matter: cell aging will kill these cells long before cycle count does. So as far as the G1 LiBCM conversion is concerned, there is almost zero difference between the two cell types.

Obviously I have a lot to update over on the main project page. Not sure I'm going to take the time to retroactively change every instance of EHW5 here on ic.net, but certainly I'll add a note to the most important pages that reference EHW5.
 

·
Registered
insight 2006 MT insight 2005 MT
Joined
·
237 Posts
I ordered several samsung fomoco 47Ah batteries, one of them was damaged.
I contacted Batteryhookup and they sent me another battery to replace it.
I just noticed that the replacement battery I received last week is not the same model as the others.

The first ones I had were LX68-10C790-G-PIA-3AB
the last one I received is an LX68-10C767-F and it's written 49.5AH
Both batteries look identical, same number of cells, the only difference I noticed is the black plastic cover which is glossy and not textured.
I checked and it's the same circuit inside

Can I mix the two battery models and connect them in series ?
Font Gas Automotive lighting Nickel Metal
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
4,118 Posts
These "close-but-not-the-same" module variants are super annoying!

Ideally all the modules in a particular pack are the same.

From a safety standpoint, the LiBCM firmware is far enough along that it won't overcharge/overdischarge mixed cell packs, as long as all cell types can handle being operated between CELL_VMAX_REGEN and CELL_VMIN_ASSIST.

Beyond that, though, the LiBCM firmware isn't far enough along that I can recommend mixing cell types. So while it's 'safe' to operate mixed cell packs, I don't recommend it. If you do decide to run different cell types in the same pack, you'll need to set STACK_mAh_NOM to the LOWEST nominal cell capacity.

In your specific case, the cells are probably the same chemistry and are about the same size... so as long as you change STACK_mAh_NOM to 47000 (and not 49500) it should probably work just fine.

In a couple months the firmware will support "per-cell SoC and SoH", at which point we can revisit this topic. For now my blanket statement is "don't mix different cell types".

...

FYI: The QTY5 modules I have are all LX68-10C790, 2.07 kWh. That's what I will focus my efforts on. I must limit my focus, as there are many more cell chemistries out there than I have hours to characterize them. All of these tangents are fun to think about, but right now they're preventing me from focusing on core firmware development.
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
4,118 Posts
Battery hookup has 73 FoMoCo modules left in stock.
FYI: On SEP07 Battery Hookup told me they had QTY104 in stock.
FYI: I tried to buy the rest of them today and Battery Hookup replied "we cannot offer the remainder of the modules because they are moving steady at the moment". So that's good, I guess (as long as it's the ic.net community that's buying them).
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
4,118 Posts
FYI: On SEP07 Battery Hookup told me they had QTY104 in stock.
FYI: I tried to buy the rest of them today and Battery Hookup replied "we cannot offer the remainder of the modules because they are moving steady at the moment". So that's good, I guess (as long as it's the ic.net community that's buying them).
Thanks. I got hold of one. Not quite as good shape as my first one, bit of corrosion but don't think it will impact performance. Unfortunately the BMS I received was defective, 2nd one on the way.
Post a picture if you want a second opinion.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,938 Posts
FYI: On SEP07 Battery Hookup told me they had QTY104 in stock.
FYI: I tried to buy the rest of them today and Battery Hookup replied "we cannot offer the remainder of the modules because they are moving steady at the moment". So that's good, I guess (as long as it's the ic.net community that's buying them).
Wtf why lol. They are selling a product, if you are willing to buy their entire inventory who cares who buys it? SMH.
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
4,118 Posts
Wtf why lol. They are selling a product, if you are willing to buy their entire inventory who cares who buys it? SMH.
I guess I rejected more modules from the first batch they sent, versus all other customers do on average? I'm certainly not getting a huge discount buying them in bulk. So yeah, I don't understand either, but whatever. I think at this point enough other G1 owners have purchased them that I'll be able to sell the QTY50 figure I decided was the minimum viable quantity to do the project.

Here are some pics. Thoughts?
Depends on what caused that Fe₂O₃ and Al₂O₃ to form. The obvious answer is "from iron/aluminum and water"... but that begs the question "where did the water come from?"

Best case, the battery sat out in the rain briefly.
Worst case, the electrolyte leaked out and corroded the terminals. If this is what happened, then you should expect this cell to have substantially lower capacity than the other cells... so keep an eye out for this cell having a major voltage mismatch compared to all others.

If you decide to use this module, you'll want to mechanically remove the non-conductive aluminum oxide from the terminals, so you don't get a hot spot where the high current cable connects.
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
4,118 Posts
I do not have enough information to make a qualified recommendation, but I will note that BatteryHookup appears to be pretty good at sending replacement modules when customers receive defective ones.
 
421 - 440 of 442 Posts
Top