[salty1]

I am hoping someone can help me with this problem:
I have a 2002 Insight which I bought as a demonstrator from a dealer in August 2002;it has an automatic transmission.
When I purchased the vehicle, the mileage was 5000 and MPG for auto was around 45.
I live in western Mass., where weather can vary quite a bit.
When I purchased vehicle, the MPG continued around 45MPG, which I felt was ok but not was advertised;dealer told me it had to do with driving style, etc.
The next summer I July 2003 I drove to New York City(distance 150) without using AC and got around 58MPG for the entire trip(300 miles).
Since that time MPh has gone steadily down and sometimes gets as low as low 30's (MPG) in winter.
The mileage for entire life of car is a paltry 38.7. it has around 43 thousand miles on it.
In all fairness I retired several years ago and now average only 200 miles a week.
I have told dealer(and actually contacted Honda about this) about this and have been told it has to do with perhaps what has been added to gas, again my driving style, etc. I wasn't happy but accepted explanation.
One
One day about 3 months ago i brought my car in for service and noticed there was another Insight from my area also being serviced.
I was curious so I had a rep. check milegae for life of car;it was a 2000 Insight(manual) and has a MPG for 58 MPG with around 75 or 80000 miles on it.
I then checked with a salesman who also he had a customer with an Insight (my area also) who was also getting in high 50's.
My dealer ran some tests and said they could not find anything wrong with my vehicle.
About a month ago, I took a trip to Washington DC and averaged high 40's going down(trip is around 400 miles down).
On way back(Wash. is warmer than in Mass. )I started out great in high fifties and then mileage deteriorated a little but still around 54 for return trip.
Since I returned mileage reverted to low to mid 30's and has increased a little in between fillups to around 36 MPG or so of late with warmer weather.
I have kept logs for dealer on trips, they have told me they will contact customer reps, etc. but this goes back and forth with nothing being done.
I can't believe my driving is that different to cause a 20 MPG discrepancy between my 38.7 and others 58 MPG.
I don't speed,etc.
I love my Insight overall but feel someone must know what problem is;the car is not in warranty presently but feel Honda should consider it in warranty because I complained about this problem LONG before warranty expired.
Does anyone have any suggestions, and also please tell me your MPG on your Insight, how may miles on it, where you live, etc.
Thanks in advance.

 

[salty1]

ps the word in second last sentence should be how many miles.
Also, I use regular gas(as instructed).
My own opinion is that somehow computermis not alloting correct amount of gas.
Also, car has a strange habit of getting much better mileage right after tank is filled up than when gas in car starts to decrease after use.

 

[jbrasure]

You seem to be getting the expected mileage on your long trips. (54 MPG is pretty typical for a CVT Insight.)

It sounds like you might be getting your worst mileage while driving around town. Is that the case? If so, how long are your typical drives? If they are really short, then it doesn't surprise me that your getting bad mileage. I used to live 2 miles from work, and I would frequently get 40 - 45 MPG going to and from work, especially during the winter. The first couple of minutes of driving really kill your mileage, because the engine is reving high, and you're frequently going slow or standing still.

I hope that helps,

James

 

[Dougie]

I would like to encourage you to not give up. First off, you bought the car in summer when it's warm, and until just about now, it's been cold. That has a HUGE impact on the economy. It will get a lot better over the next couple of months.

My suggestion would be to go for a few weeks trying your absolute hardest to get the best mileage possible. No heater/fan/air, windows closed. Pump tires to 44 PSI. Clean out the junk stored in the luggage bin. Highway miles, but stay down under 55. All the other stuff. City driving makes a big impact, because you're putting heat into the tires every time you stop and start. Constant speed is much better, if at all possible.

That driving style might not be practical on a daily basis, but it will give you a good baseline of what the car can do, and then you can decide how much to compromise from there. The people that get the insanely high economy figures are out there working at it, whether they're driving Insights or anything else...

 

[salty1]

Thanks guys for the advice.
Dougie-remember I bought the car in 2002 and not 2005;thus I know what to expect, and the bottom line is that the mileage has deteriorated and not got better as one would think it should.
I am going to ask for a meeting with an area rep. myself soon if I don't get some answers.

 

[salty1]

Also, I do a lot of short trips, but again when I see others who live in same area getting a LOT better mileage (58 as opposed to 39), I have to find out what the cause is;if I got 50 and they got 58, ok. But 20 MPG difference seems a bit much for drivers operating under similar conditions.

 

[griller]

Salty1,
I have a 2006 with an automatic. Short trips around town, which I do on the weekends running errands, are absolute mpg killers for me. The engine barely gets warmed up before I shut it off again. I was horrified the first real weekend I had it home as I watched my trip A mpg slide down.

I put about 255 miles per week in commuting across town, and it is all I can do to get close to 55 mpg per tankfull. If I were to take my eyes off the FCD for a few trips to work I'm sure I could run the mileage right down to 40. Temperatures are mild where I live, even so I'm tempted to put a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator

 

[salty1]

Griller-thanks.
Here is where I still find fault:
Before I retiered a few years ago, I drove more, and more highway driving, and commute to work was around 7 miles.
Even though I never got out of mid 40's for MPG for life of car and as stated it has decreased to 38.7 which is not good.
If others got the same, I could live with it, but as stated, that is not the case.
Hopefully, the dealer can resolve this issue.

 

[salty1]

Word in last post should be retired and commute was 7 miles on way. I also did considerably more highway driving.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Hi salty1,

Sorry to read about your MPG problem.

Your NYC trip demonstrated that your Insight is capeable of MPG comperable to other CVT Insighter's in here.

However, one component that is easily overlooked it the primary (LAF) O2 sensor. You'll need to get it checked using the propane enrichment test while monitoring its output via an oscilloscope.

See:

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=3749

for one members _extreme_ difficulty in finding a competent shop to find & fix this problem (and the "how-to" get the test done)

If it passes then IMO its your commute that has changed. But you could easily prove it to yourself with a 100 mile trip in the country. A block heater even in summer will help for short distance driving (reduced cold start MPG inefficiencies by pre-warming the engine coolant).

Honda does _not_ warranty MPG (nor does any manufacturer) there's too many on the road factors. Seen it tried many times. Don't waste your time trying to get "MPG" covered.

Still got the OEM Bridgestone tires installed :?: Any other will reduce MPG by 10%+. Got them properly inflated :?: Is your pressure gauge accurate :?: Using 0W-20 oil :?: (are you _sure_ somebody didn't slip your Insight a Micky (heavier weight oil)) Taking the route that's uphill both ways :?:

And _PLEASE_ let the group know how things progress for you (in this thread)

HTH!

 

[salty1]

Insightful-thanks for the help. I will try your suggestions and ask the dealer about the test.

 

[salty1]

I would also add that that trip to New York was almsot three years ago.
I took my daughter to New Jersey last August (probably 450 miles round trip), and MPg for trips was in high 40's(AC was used a little).
As stated, in March the trip to Wash. averaged high forties down and low fifties back-ok but should be better, ESPECIALLY IMMEDIATELY after I returned to New England(somewhat cold but not bitter) and MPG sunk once again into low-mid 30's.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

All _highly_ subjective conditions. To _accurately_ correlate weather, traffic, and _ALL_ the other factors that _will_ reduce MPG is a HUGE undertaking.

Much easier to wait for an optimal day and take a nice relaxed drive in the country.

Not trying to diminish the "data" your suppling, but it's really of little help. To be sucessful we're gonna have to approach the problem from a different angle. Its the limitation of communication via the written word. But if your going to be in the east Tennessee area soon then I could get behind the wheel and qualify what your experiencing too.

So start down the check list from the cheapest toward the more expensive. I think I've got you started from the cost bottom too. Wait to do the O2 sensor check as a last resort.

HTH!

 

[goat961]

i agree that short trips really kill mpg. in fact i've done a few experiments because i will often have a 20-25 mile comute instead of my normal 12 miles if my gf's car breaks which hapens about every 2 months. in addition, if i take off work and school (like for spring break) i end up taking a lot of short trips (under 4 miles). so i get basicaly a full week of a shortened or lengthened commute

i normally average between 58 and 64 depending on the season for my normal commute. i own a 5 speed.

for my double length commute i generally get +5 mpg

for my short commute i get -10 to -20 depending on the temp/weather. so when you say you have a 7 mile commute that seems pretty short to me and if there's any hard acceleration (like hills or geting on a highway) i could see your mpg being fine.

an engine block heater may help if it's just your trip length causing the issue. i've been considering one myself

 

[salty1]

The Service Manager called me(he is a real good guy and has helped me with a lot of things in the past) and told me that he has checked with Honda representative and that little more could be done at this point as all the tests in past had been normal.
I told him about this site, and he seemed anxious to check it out.
He gave a lot of same advice as given here, and told me that one of his customers who also drives an Insight told him to tell me to inflate tires to mid 40's(I have had them in mid to high 30's). i am goind to do this as well as have wheel alignment checked.
Oh yes-sorry if this has been asked before, but what do you guys who get great mileage use for gas-regular, regular plus, premium, and what brand? I have noticed differences in MPG between brands myself.
Stay tuned for more to come.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

A "hot" topic salty1.

See:

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=4232

HTH!

 

[salty1]

Insight-Thanks for the link. It is quite interesting stuff.

 

[salty1]

I would still like an answer as to what you guys who get great mileage use forf gas (brand name), and whehter it is regular, regular plus, high test , etc.

 

[Guest]

Hi Salty1:

___I used E10 based RFG - Regular Unleaded from either Shell or BP 95% of the time.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

 

[highwater]

Conoco reg unleaded.

Randall