[Adria]

Starting a thread for discussion / how-to of setting up a Genesis One charger with the "common" Fit LTO setup. The Genesis charger allows 1A charging up to one of six pre-configured set points. Genesis also has a built-in fan controller and temperature sensors.

An interesting side note is HybridRevolt removed the PTC monitoring circuit from their version of the Genesis charger.

If you have an LTO and are using a Genesis charger, could you chime in and share your experiences / configs? Are you using the Genesis temperature sensors or something else (or nothing at all)?

Related links:

• Installing the Genesis One Universal grid charger in an Insight (99mpg.com)
• Genesis One grid charger (99mpg.com)
• Genesis One Manual 3.0 (original 99mpg.com)
• Genesis One Manual 3.0 (hybrid revolt - Manual Revision 3.0.H1 - December 10th, 2013 )
• LTO cells as NiMH replacement (IC)
• Disabling PTC circuit

 

[jime]

Just a quick response, and more tonight. I've been using one quite successfully to charge my LTO conversion.. One can set up a LTO profile in one of the 6 slots available. If set up properly, the Genesis will charge at 1 amp and stop charging automatically when a preset voltage is reached. More this evening on the actual settings for the LTO profile.

Genesis equipment (now from HybridRevolt) is quite expensive, so this would be a good option only if one already has the equipment, or can find a really good deal on the 1A charger. Discharger not needed of course.

 

[Honda hybrid442]

That’s good to know,now I have to learn to build a lto version

 

[jime]

A little more discussion and food for thought on the subject of using the Genesis for purposes of LTO charging. First, let's acknowledge that it is an overly expensive approach if one is starting their charger "solution" from scratch. As Peter has indicated in another thread, there are existing designs which are much cheaper. So the discussion and information here is for those who already own the 1A Genesis, or can acquire a used one at a favorable price. That number of such people makes the subject worth discussion.

So, onward. So far as hookup locations, the standard Genesis hookup locations on the junction board are fine. These hookup locations still result in hooking the charger to the LTO pack positive and negative terminals. This is a solid harness installation and safe IMO. The harness is fused should some unlikely complication result, and provides a level of protection..

The temperature board will likely require some modification, Because the temperature board tests the NiMH PTC strip circuit for excess temperature in any one or more cells, then the absence of this sensor loop must be corrected by the use of a 12-20 ohm across the "input" pins. The remaining 2 temperature sensors, originally one for pack input and one for the output air flow, will likely shutdown charging at 100F, a wise default.

The fan board requires no modification, and will not impact fan operation, or fan choices made from the OBDII C&C, afaik. If the removable fan plug at the front of the original battery is disconnected, then those wires can, I think, be wired to whatever fan arrangement the owner desires. I "think" this would be a good source of 12V power for low current devices such as an Arduino.

I assume a charge shutoff of 180V(2.5V/cell) but the owner can substitute a lower voltage if desired.

The following setup discussion assumes version 3.0 of the S/W, the latest I believe. V3.0 is characterized by having two options fields to set up, vs. earlier versions which had one, and were more difficult to set up the discharge side - which is not needed for LTO. Cycle through the charger settings until one reaches the target profile location and make a note of the profile #. Edit that profile to a "cut back" voltage of 180V, and a maximum voltage of 180V. I don't think the options menu's have any effect on the charger in this simple charging mode.

IN MY OPINION, THE CHARGER SHUT DOWN AT 180V SHOULD BE MONITORED CLOSELY ON THE FIRST SUCH USE. I THINK THIS IS ALL CORRECT, BUT I MAY HAVE LEFT SOMETHING OUT. I'M WORKING FROM MEMORY.

 

[Adria]

Have my fans connected to the Genesis One charger and am ready to set up a Car Profile with custom voltages jime mentions above.

Very probably a dumb question, but how do I edit Cutback and Maxiumum Voltage under a Car Profile? I'm able to scroll through the Car Profiles, just can't figure how to access/change these two settings.

 

[jime]

I think your issue is that you aren't using the "edit" button, in the center of the 4 arrows. When you scroll to the variable you want to change, in your selected profile, press the "edit" button once, then make your changes. Press the "edit" button a second time to enter the value. For the car model/year, just enter 100 which is the 2000 Insight.

What version of the software do you have. The most recent is v3.0.

If you don't have a manual, you can download one here:

https://hybridrevolt.com/GC%20Instr%203_0_C%20Nov%202013.pdf

Don't try to read the mid part of the manual as it is very confusing to many. Just kinda scan it. The last 15 pages or so are important and useful.

 

[Adria]

I'm not sure how to find where to even do that much.

This is what I am doing to select a Car Profile:

1. Press Setup
2. Wait a second, then press Edit to enter the Change Profile menu
3. Press down/up arrows to page through available Car Profiles

So once I've selected a Car Profile, how do I get where I can enter a different Cutback value? Could you potentially list out the steps like I have right above?

 

[jime]

OK, one more time. The version number is important. Mike made several changes to the S/W during the production run and they don't all work the same way. I assume you got the charger used with the car. I don't know which verssion you have, but there were significant changes to the setup menu with version 3.01, which is the one I use.

BUT, the method I use to change profile variables is the same across all versions far as I know. Forget the setup button. There were changes between verssions(I'm gonna write this, then I'm gonna go out and verify it on a version 3.01 and my version 2.8)

1. Push the down arrow once.This will activate the bottom row of the display.
2. Push the right arrow several times until you reach the "cutback voltage(Cut_backVP#)" you have mentally selected as your LTO profile. Note the profile number you have selected so you don't forget it.
3. Press the "Edit" button once.
4. Using the down, left and right buttons, change the value to 180( for a 72cell pack).
5. Press the "Edit" button again to enter the value.
6. Press the right arrow once to reach the maximum voltage(ChrgStopVP#)
7. Repeat steps 3,4,&5 above.
8. Press the right arrow once to reach the "model/year"
9. repeat steps 3,4,&5 to set the variable to 100. This value is for the 2000 Insight.

I fully realize that the controls for the charger are confusing and that the manual is pretty lousy. The manual was subcontracted and the communications wasn't particularly good. Several of my friends gave up on the charger and just bought the simpler, but less capable, HybridAutomotive rig.

I used to complain bitterly about the quality of the manual. At some point of frustration Mike just told me to relax, get a cup of coffee and "play" around with the keyboard until I understood it. The sad truth is that creative geniuses don't want to take "creative" time to document, so good manuals are usually an afterthought or left to some less talented tech writer. I spent a tech lifetime watching this phenomenon at work.

VERSION???

 

[Adria]

EEPROM 5.000
V3.01 code 1/14

 

[jime]

I think that is the latest version. Did my directions work?

 

[Natalya]

Yes her Genesis One has the most recent available code. It wasn't operational (dead relay) when she bought the car last year so I mailed it to Mike Dabrowski and he fixed it and mailed it back having also performed the software update.

 

[jime]

DID MY DIRECTIONS WORK? TALK TO ME.

 

[Willie Williford]

Why are you "hollering"Jimmy?

 

[jime]

Cause I'm locked up here in my house for 4 weeks now and going nuts

I'm 82 and have shaky lungs. If I were to get Coronavirus, I'd be dead. I have to go for food occasionally, but I look like a man from Mars when I go - mask, eye protection, latex gloves, wind breaker with hood. My county in on the rapid increase part of the curve, so there are a lot of infected folks out there somewhere outside my door. Little testing, so the real number of carrier could be 2, 3, 4 times - who knows - the reported number.

Old smoker like you - you better stay home yo self

 

[Adria]

jime, sorry I've been slow to get back. Work has been absolutley bonkers of late. I am also in a higher risk group and am very anxious about this disease.

I'll make a video of my failed attempt to get to the editing area of a Car Profile and post here later tonight.

Again sorry for the delays and to add any undue worry and stress.

 

[jime]

It's ok. Obvious I didn't realize that you were under stress with your job. I'd like to see the video. After you do that, maybe we can just connect by phone while I talk you through the steps. I have one charger which is running the same version that Natalya indicated you have. Are you trying to follow a procedure from the manual?

Sorry you feel so apprehensive about being vulnerable. Obvious steps, if you can get the stuff, are gloves, eye protection, and a mask. I'm also seriously vulnerable, but being so old and retired, I just lock myself at home.

 

[Adria]

 

[jime]

I looked at the video several times. Though you appear to be following directions in the HybridRevolt manual (current vendor), this is not the procedure I've used. According to Mike's best advice, I need to play around with the charger a bit to see if you can get it set with this procedure. Middle of night so I'll have to do it tomorrow.

I also went to the manual and read what is there. I believe the manual, in a subtle way, is deceiving one into thinking the actual parameters of each profile can be changed from this point in the controls. I think all one is really doing here is selecting the car type and model year for the given profile.

Let me "play around" with it tomorrow. At this moment, I think we will arrive back at the instructions in post #8, but I could be wrong. Let me give it an experimental try tomorrow

 

[Adria]

Regarding instructions in #8, how do I get to step "zero" from when the unit is turned completely off? In trying different combos I randomly ran across cutback voltage once out of many, many attempts, but subsequently couldn't unlock the steps to get there again.

I am a pretty smart girl and feel really dumb that I can't figure this out.

 

[Adria]

Here's another video of unsuccessful attempts to find/edit Cutback and Max voltage.