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Discussion Starter #1
I just bought my 2000 MT last week and am trying to go for gold with my MPG's. The car currently doesn't have potenzas on it and the IMA needs some love but aside from that, it should be able to do what others can. I drove at 65mph for 125 miles with heavy crosswinds, not much headwind and got 58mpg. Then, my wife drove it for another 125 miles on slower roads at 55mph that were somewhat hilly and got 62mpg. We were really doing a lot of hypermiling techniques of slow acceleration, watching our gears, being super judicious with braking and watching our current mpgs and trying to maximize lean burn (we have a Civic HX as well so we already are well acquainted with lbn).

I was hoping to do a lot better than this, for our maiden voyage but I would like some tips to see what we might be doing wrong or if our experience is par for the course. I was hoping to get at least 70mpg's as I currently can beat the EPA rating in just about any car I drive.

The car really didn't like 5th gear all that much, I am used to puttering around in 5th whenever I can in the civic but this car has less power band in 5th it seems, I don't know if the crosswinds just wrecked that trip or what but it seemed pretty starved for power.
 

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Sounds pretty "average" for a "newbie". It takes many many miles of driving to get really good at hypermileing.
Total Miles on Vehicle?
What is the LMPG?

HTH
Willie
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Total miles are just over 170k, true life mpg is 64.5, hasn't been reset. The car was a cream puff from its first owners, an older couple, the next owner took care of it and was good to it. I feel like I lucked out with a good life mpg car, I just hate to see it DROP with me!

The guy I bought it from said that crosswinds seem to hurt it as much as headwinds, which I think kind of stinks that it does bad with 3 out of 4 directions. It was getting 20-35mph crosswinds for much of the trip.
 

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If your experience turns out anything like mine, I would tend to the imbalance in the battery pack right away.

Two ways to go initially:

1) Install a CalPod IMA disable switch.
2) Go the approach listed by Mike Dabrowski on his website 99mpg.com.

The CalPod IMA disable stops all background charging of the IMA, until the SOC gets low enough that it continues on anyway.

Look at Mikes site and think about installing the trickle charger using the Meanwell power supplies.

Picasa Web Albums - Jim - Battery Trick...

When I first bought the Insight, I:

1) adjusted the valves
2) checked the underbody panels for protrusions hanging down (there were some)
3) cleaned the EGR and passages
4) cleaned mouse home from intake filter
5) pumped up tires to 55 psi
6) started reading about FAS and engine off coasting
7) looked at the BSFC chart and started keeping the engine in that range when accelerating, depending on conditions
8 use a ScanGauge to keep track of essential parameters
9) start learning how the car likes to be driven (for me, this was the longest)

There was a post that said something like, "You know your an EcoDriver when....". There were a lot of good suggestions there on that topic.

Willie is correct. This car can keep you occupied for a long time.

Jim.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The car already has calpod from previous owner, egr is clean, valves are tuned, have a scan gauge already, I might get a OBDIIC&C someday though.

How much is a new battery from bumblebee or hybrid revolt going to help things if I get a IMAC&C as well? Right now I am afraid of using the IMA too much for fear of getting a light, seems like the IMAC&C is premature until I get a fresh battery as I am kind of crippled in what I can do with IMA until I get a fresh battery.
 

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why not take the battery out and recondition it?

you can see what the capacities are in the current state and then compare to the capacities you get for the sticks after you recondition the pack.

then add the leads and fuse for a small balancing charger to top balance the pack when it gets to the IMA light eventually.

it is better to get the pack in balance as early in it's history as is possible. it will last longer then and give more assist.

you can put off the IMA light a long time that way imo.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
This car is my daily driver, is it hard to rig the car for no IMA use for a few weeks? Don't you have to do something to it before it can be used with no IMA battery?
 

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Read this ref for some techniques:

Beating the EPA - The Why’s and How to Hypermile - CleanMPG Forums

A few things I spot right away:
1. Any tire other than the Bridgestone RE92 is going to cost some Mpg
2. Your speed is too high. The magic compromise for highway is 50-55.
3. Set your tire pressures to Max Load of 44psi. Many hypermilers run as high as 80 psi without ill effects, but anything over 65 is probably a waste.
4. If your IMA battery is in poor enough condition that it is constantly charging in the background, then that will hurt.
5. A/C will cost 8 mpg plus or minus.
6. Stops really hurt. Try to time stops.

Don't be intimidated by the super numbers you sometimes see. Those numbers are frequently set under competition conditions, with short range competition techniques, and with special equipment.

A realistic target for a highway trip, without FASing, is around 90mpg. You will get better with practice. Practice getting into lean burn and staying there.
 

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redeemed,
Potenza's will make quite a difference, and depending on the state of the IMA it make be creating mpg-sucking drag.

You also may want to be sure that you are getting Autostop by turning off heat or a/c as you decelerate to a stop. (Turn it off before 19mph)

If you get up to Madison I'd be happy to ride along with you for a bit.

And lastly, you shoudl definitely plan on coming to InsightFest 2015 in Wisconsin. You'll be able to meet with other owners in person and have a weekend of Insight-focused fun.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Read this ref for some techniques:

Beating the EPA - The Why’s and How to Hypermile - CleanMPG Forums

A few things I spot right away:
1. Any tire other than the Bridgestone RE92 is going to cost some Mpg
2. Your speed is too high. The magic compromise for highway is 50-55.
3. Set your tire pressures to Max Load of 44psi. Many hypermilers run as high as 80 psi without ill effects, but anything over 65 is probably a waste.
4. If your IMA battery is in poor enough condition that it is constantly charging in the background, then that will hurt.
5. A/C will cost 8 mpg plus or minus.
6. Stops really hurt. Try to time stops.

Don't be intimidated by the super numbers you sometimes see. Those numbers are frequently set under competition conditions, with short range competition techniques, and with special equipment.

A realistic target for a highway trip, without FASing, is around 90mpg. You will get better with practice. Practice getting into lean burn and staying there.
I have been hypermiling my Civic HX for 2 years, getting 40mpg city (even in winter sometimes), 50mpg highway with lrr tires and a scan gauge to help find lbn, using a block heater in winter time to minimize cold starts ect.

I may be new to the insight, but definitely not to hypermiling, I just assumed that with the skills I have picked up, I would be able to hit or beat the EPA #'s. BTW, my insight has no ac so its already lighter than most and I don't even have the option of robbing my mpg's with it. I cool myself with beaded seat covers and shorts/t shirt and sandals and the fan on medium if I need it. I would think that with the potenzas and slowing down that much, I should be able to get closer to the 90 you mentioned, but I don't think it makes sense why it was down so low on this trip. This trip didn't have more than a dozen stops the whole way (250 miles) so I don't know how much a tiny nuance of perfecting that will make much difference, but yes, I was timing the lights and using regen at worst case, no brakes.

I would have thought I would be seeing 58mpg's if I just tried to go 70mph and didn't hypermile at all, not going 65mph with a lot of coaxing on grades and babying to maintain lbn (yes I could feel it). In truth, it really had a hard time getting lbn at 65mph, the power just wasn't there with the wind blowing me all over the place.

Have any of you noticed a hard time getting the mpg's with high crosswinds?

I would love to go to the insightfest in WI, its only about an hour from me but vacation time is precious for us so I may only make it to one day if thats ok.
 

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I have been hypermiling my Civic HX for 2 years, getting 40mpg city (even in winter sometimes), 50mpg highway with lrr tires and a scan gauge to help find lbn, using a block heater in winter time to minimize cold starts ect.

I may be new to the insight, but definitely not to hypermiling, I just assumed that with the skills I have picked up, I would be able to hit or beat the EPA #'s. BTW, my insight has no ac so its already lighter than most and I don't even have the option of robbing my mpg's with it. I cool myself with beaded seat covers and shorts/t shirt and sandals and the fan on medium if I need it. I would think that with the potenzas and slowing down that much, I should be able to get closer to the 90 you mentioned, but I don't think it makes sense why it was down so low on this trip. This trip didn't have more than a dozen stops the whole way (250 miles) so I don't know how much a tiny nuance of perfecting that will make much difference, but yes, I was timing the lights and using regen at worst case, no brakes.

I would have thought I would be seeing 58mpg's if I just tried to go 70mph and didn't hypermile at all, not going 65mph with a lot of coaxing on grades and babying to maintain lbn (yes I could feel it). In truth, it really had a hard time getting lbn at 65mph, the power just wasn't there with the wind blowing me all over the place.

Have any of you noticed a hard time getting the mpg's with high crosswinds?

I would love to go to the insightfest in WI, its only about an hour from me but vacation time is precious for us so I may only make it to one day if thats ok.
IMO crosswinds are worse than headwinds in the insight.
 

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Redeemed,
Gotta be concientious about vacation time, for sure.
I'll put you down as a maybe. Even coming for the afternoon and swapping stories would be well-worth the $30.

Feel free to email me with other questions.

It's good that you are familiar with lean burn. That helps a lot.
You can do an oil change, too, if you are unsure of what viscosity is in there.

I would suggest putting a warm-air mod in place. It doesn't cost much to do, and definitely helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ok, maybe I'll chalk up that trip to bad crosswinds and see how my future trips go, I'd really like to be getting 70+mpg comfortably and be able to hit 80-90 with a lot of love.
 

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I have been hypermiling my Civic HX for 2 years, getting 40mpg city (even in winter sometimes), 50mpg highway with lrr tires and a scan gauge to help find lbn, using a block heater in winter time to minimize cold starts ect.

I may be new to the insight, but definitely not to hypermiling, I just assumed that with the skills I have picked up, I would be able to hit or beat the EPA #'s. BTW, my insight has no ac so its already lighter than most and I don't even have the option of robbing my mpg's with it. I cool myself with beaded seat covers and shorts/t shirt and sandals and the fan on medium if I need it. I would think that with the potenzas and slowing down that much, I should be able to get closer to the 90 you mentioned, but I don't think it makes sense why it was down so low on this trip. This trip didn't have more than a dozen stops the whole way (250 miles) so I don't know how much a tiny nuance of perfecting that will make much difference, but yes, I was timing the lights and using regen at worst case, no brakes.

I would have thought I would be seeing 58mpg's if I just tried to go 70mph and didn't hypermile at all, not going 65mph with a lot of coaxing on grades and babying to maintain lbn (yes I could feel it). In truth, it really had a hard time getting lbn at 65mph, the power just wasn't there with the wind blowing me all over the place.

Have any of you noticed a hard time getting the mpg's with high crosswinds?

I would love to go to the insightfest in WI, its only about an hour from me but vacation time is precious for us so I may only make it to one day if thats ok.
It's funny, prior to getting RE92'S I was only getting 56-58mpg. I have RE92'S now, and I'm about to finish up another 70+ MPG tank (currently at 71.4 at 600 miles).

I did a Campo trip with a bunch of other insighters last year. We did something like 600 miles in a single day. This was back when I had my 185/65/R14 tires. I got the lowest out of everyone, even Joe (GRZPDLR) in his lean burn CVT with a passenger got better mileage than I did. I believe everyone in the group hot 72-76 on the trip, and I got about 64 iirc.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Redeemed,
Gotta be concientious about vacation time, for sure.
I'll put you down as a maybe. Even coming for the afternoon and swapping stories would be well-worth the $30.

Feel free to email me with other questions.

It's good that you are familiar with lean burn. That helps a lot.
You can do an oil change, too, if you are unsure of what viscosity is in there.

I would suggest putting a warm-air mod in place. It doesn't cost much to do, and definitely helps.
I think my other half is on board with a little trip up north as long as we get to tent camp. Devils Lake and some of our other stomping grounds are just a few miles to the north there, we may skip the lodge and go camping at one of the camp grounds nearby. $30 is hardly anything, frankly I'm a little surprised it isn't more considering that we are getting a garage to work in and meeting room.

How do we pay?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
UPDATE:

I have now been driving it two days in to work and have actually improved the mpg on the tank with 200 miles on it by 1.4mpg, so if it went from 62mpg to 63.4mpg with 40 more miles, the last few miles must have been averaging about 70mpg. This is somewhat encouraging but considering that half of my commute is flat rural roads with few stops and 55mph speed limits, those are pretty ideal hypermiling conditions. I typically don't see my avg mpg go up much in town, I think most of it is happening on the rural roads.

Do you think its possible to push 80-90mpg on these rural roads if I got a new battery, IMAC&C and a set of potenzas? Sadly all those things would cost more than I spent on the entire car but I may keep them in the mind for future upgrades.
 

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You are trying hard but not getting great results so I suggest go back to the basic advice.

1) Buy some Re92 tyres and pump them upto 44psi minimum that will be upto +10mpg. It will maintain LB much easier with the right tyres.

2) Sort the ima battery out either by grid charging it, cycling it, replacing it or disabling/removing it if it's really bad. Background charging kills high mpg stone dead.

3) Check all the brakes for dragging especially the rears which should spin freely.
 

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UPDATE:

I have now been driving it two days in to work and have actually improved the mpg on the tank with 200 miles on it by 1.4mpg, so if it went from 62mpg to 63.4mpg with 40 more miles, the last few miles must have been averaging about 70mpg. This is somewhat encouraging but considering that half of my commute is flat rural roads with few stops and 55mph speed limits, those are pretty ideal hypermiling conditions. I typically don't see my avg mpg go up much in town, I think most of it is happening on the rural roads.

Do you think its possible to push 80-90mpg on these rural roads if I got a new battery, IMAC&C and a set of potenzas? Sadly all those things would cost more than I spent on the entire car but I may keep them in the mind for future upgrades.
What Peter said. +1

Try eliminating some of the guesswork. I set Trip A every tank, Trip B every day, and I reset the FCD frequently for shorter sections.

Please tell us the brand and size of your tires.

Then lets take a closer look at your battery performance. Consider buying or building a grid charger.

Sam
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Is it hard to run the car without IMA at all? I know it works fine if the light goes on but I thought you have to do something to it if the battery is completely removed. I do need this car daily and I thought it took a few weeks of cycling to bring pack back to life.

Also, where is the best place to buy individual cells, I know that bumblebee and revolt make new packs from new cells but I have never seen new sticks for sale. If I buy old refurbed ones, are they even worth it?
 

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Is it hard to run the car without IMA at all? I know it works fine if the light goes on but I thought you have to do something to it if the battery is completely removed. I do need this car daily and I thought it took a few weeks of cycling to bring pack back to life.
It only works fine, with IMA light on, for a while. The 12V battery is not being charged with the IMA light on so eventually the car will stall, just when depending on the charge and quality of the 12V battery. Yes the car can be run in bypass mode without the IMA battery. It involves disconnecting the plugs on the BCM. Do some searching using the search button since this topic has been covered many many times.


Also, where is the best place to buy individual cells, I know that bumblebee and revolt make new packs from new cells but I have never seen new sticks for sale. If I buy old refurbed ones, are they even worth it?
Refurbishing a pack with used cells is a very time consuming and frequently unrewarding process, and requires special equipment. The new Chinese cells differ slightly in characteristics and the professional builders like Bumblebee do not recommend mixing the old and new. That means that you buy a box of 20 old sticks from one of the professionals and go through them all to find maybe 1/3 of the sticks worth reuse.

Occasionally, someone will sell what they claim are tested sticks on eBay. I have occasionally purchased these with mixed results. It isn't a profitable business model;)
 
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