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Discussion Starter #1
I'm going to be swapping out the OEM tires for a set of 185/60/HR14 Bridgestone Turanza LS-H. Is there any point to getting a wheel/tire package? Are there any advantages/disadvantages that the OEMs would have over other wheels from a functionality standpoint? (lighter? stronger? etc.?)

Thanks, in advance, for the advice.

Regards,

Trip
 

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As far as a different 14 probably not worth it. The stock wheels are a very light alloy. They also contribute to the aerodynamic design of the car. Personally I was thinking they make a 185 something 15 Potenza which might allow you to find some different 15 inch alloy wheels. I'm sure this would still cost you a bit in gas mileage, but probably not as much as going to a non LRR tire.
 

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The best 14" rims for the Insight are the ones it came with.
They are very high quality and like Rick said they are very light weight and more importantly very aerodynamic and strong.
Most reasonably priced aftermarket alloy rims are cast and weaker then cast OEM rims and high quality (expensive) aftermarket forged aluminum rims.
 

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Also, even if your going to get a wider tire may I suggest staying with the potenza so you hopefully wont get as bad of a mileage hit. I believe they make a 185 version of it.
 

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Volk Ce28n rims are lighter than the Insight and can be bought in 14x5.5 and many other sizes. Saves about 4lbs per rim. Cost 1000+ just for the rims.

Stock rims weighs I think 11pounds.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for all of the responses and advice.

A few questions:

1. The reason I like the Turanzas, is that they are sooooo quiet, comfortable, and handle very well in most conditions... at least the Turanza Revos I once had did, and I hear the new ones are even better. Are the wider Potenzas going to give me the same ride characteristics? What are the other LRR tires out there? Anything comparable to the Turanzas?

2. How much do you think the Turanzas will effect my mpg? And can I completely offset this with lighter rims... or just a little bit? If I went with the ce28s, I'd drop 18 lbs (6.5 lbs per vs. 11lbs per)... is that substantial enough to break even? (obviously, there's no way to know for sure without hard data... but best guesses are welcome)

3. Selling the OEM wheels and tires, how much do you think I could get? (just trying to see how much I can offset the expense :) ) I'm going to be doing a sound system mod, as well... so money will be limited.

So... thanks again for the help.
 

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I'd have to guess the wider potneza's are going to be close to the oem tires. Ride might be a bit better as they would be wider though. I recall an Insight owner getting his hands on a set of Michelin Proxima tires, 175/65/14 like they put on the EV1. They are LRR and supposedly provide a nice quiet ride. They also have a gel type of stuff inside them that makes them puncture resistant. If you could find a set of these still sitting somewhere they might be a little bit pricey, but would be an awsome replacment tire (too bad you can't get a whole EV1 around them too).

You can't really say how much of a mileage hit you'll get, but I'm gonna venture to guess at least 10mpg if not more. You probably wont be able to use lean burn much if at all with the wider tires. Rich Recee mentioned before trying a 145 non LRR tire before and mileage was worse than with the oem tires.

As far as the oem wheels, not sure, but I've been contemplating a full size spare so if you wanna send one my way I'd offer you $100 for one in good to new condition. Haven't seen any good ones that wern't off of a wrecked car recently on eBay so not sure what the market price for a good Insight wheel is.
 

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KiKoBa said:
Thanks for all of the responses and advice.



2. How much do you think the Turanzas will effect my mpg? And can I completely offset this with lighter rims... or just a little bit? If I went with the ce28s, I'd drop 18 lbs (6.5 lbs per vs. 11lbs per)... is that substantial enough to break even? (obviously, there's no way to know for sure without hard data... but best guesses are welcome)



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Thats saving 18lbs of rotating mass. The Insight tire spins 926 times every mile. Let me try and do some math :?
Stock rim and tires 22lbs each 22x4 total 88lbs.
Volk rims 6.5lbs and stock tires 11lbs 17.5lbsx4=70lbs

20% weight saving



total engine load to move wheel for 60miles

60miles per gallon 60x926=55560 rotations of the tire

So the wheel spins 55560 times for 60 miles

55560xstock wheel 88lbs= 488920 pounds rotated

55560x lighter wheel70lbs= 388920 pounds rotated

Saves 100,000 pounds of rotated energy per 60miles :idea:

:idea: :idea:
Of course thats not the same as pulling a 100,000 pound load for 60 miles. But for those of us who ride bikes know that your legs will be burning if you have cheap heavy rims after a day of pedaling.

I would guess that the 20% lighter wheels would increase MPG by 5%. Just a guess :?: :!:
 

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"How much do you think the Turanzas will effect my mpg? And can I completely offset this with lighter rims..."

I don't think lighter rims will really affect mpg enough to notice. What it should affect is accelleration: that is, the increased mass of wheel & tire has more rotational inertia, so takes more energy to spin up. But in the Insight you reclaim some from regen when you slow down...

The big hit would be from the different rolling resistance of the tires.
 

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Well, if this gives you any idea of how much of a role LRR plays in the scheme of things I might mention this. I sat in a 2000 Insight that had 70,000 miles on it. Granted I have no idea how it was driven in the past, but whoever had it put some generic 185 tires on it and the lifetime was somewhere around 47 I think. Personally I'm finding it kinda hard to get below 50mpg, even with the air set to automatic in pretty heavy traffic around town lately.
 

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"Saves 100,000 pounds of rotated energy per 60miles..."

Go back and check your physics :)

It doesn't take ANY energy to rotate something at a constant speed (excepting to replace losses due to friction), just as it doesn't take any energy to move something in a straight line at constant speed (again, except for friction). It takes energy to CHANGE the state of motion.

So for a wheel/tire combo, you have four factors:

1) Mass & moment of inertia (which depends on how the mass is distributed - the farther from the axis, the more inertia);

2) Bearing friction;

3) Air friction;

4) The tire's rolling resistance.

I've seen a few rims that look as though they might beat stock ones on 2, but they're all thin spoked ones, so increased 3 would probably cancel out any gain. But whatever you do, I'd bet 4 is still going to be the biggest hit.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Nice to see my topic has sparked some heated discussions. :)

I've been looking for those EV1 tires... no luck so far.

How much of a difference with the slightly wider Potenzas make as far as handling/noise/comfort/traction/etc.?

I've been working with someone at the TireRack to get their opinion on alernatives to the OEM that will reasonably maintain MPG. I'll post anything of interest... should there be anything of interest.
 

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james said:
It doesn't take ANY energy to rotate something at a constant speed (excepting to replace losses due to friction), just as it doesn't take any energy to move something in a straight line at constant speed (again, except for friction). It takes energy to CHANGE the state of motion.

So it doesn't take "ANY" energy to rotate a 22lb wheel 900 times every mile :?:

"CHANGE the state of motion" :roll: Sorta of true but most people live and drive on roads of various elevations. Numerous stop,start,increase of speed, and elevation change's are common for most drivers.

Of course my math was very very basic. Just to get a basic ideal.
I have seen numerous dyno runs that show a heavier wheel cause's larger drivetrain loss and = less power to the ground.
 

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Something I found on the net
"One additional pound (0.45Kg)in a wheel not only adds a pound to the
'scale weight' of a vehicle, it adds an additional 0.5 pounds (0.23Kg) of effective
mass. If we consider all 4 wheels, this one pound increase per wheel adds 4 pounds (1.8Kg) to
scale weight, and 2 pounds (0.9Kg) of effective mass."
 

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tires not that much of an issue

ok, i have about 3k on a set of bridgerock 910's in 185/60-14. lifetime mileage here in arkansas (where the real estate aint flat) is 54.3, with the wider tires it is about 51. if you are worried about gas mileage going down, get a cruise control, the increase in gas mileage from that will way offset the drop from the tires. the 910's are also quieter that the former yoko A509s, and the handling is much improved.
 

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"So it doesn't take "ANY" energy to rotate a 22lb wheel 900 times every mile?"

Not as long as you're travelling at a constant speed in a vacuum, and have frictionless bearings :) Or in the real world, if you had the same tires on two sets of wheels, one much heavier than the other, at constant speed you would get the same mpg from both. Where you see the benefit of the lighter wheels is in accelleration. Less mass & rotational inertia means it takes less energy to get the car to a given speed - and I bet that's what your dyno runs are measuring.

"if you are worried about gas mileage going down, get a cruise control..."

I don't think so, at least not in my driving. Cruise control tries to hold a constant speed regardless of ups & downs, right? But I get best mpg when I let the car speed up on the downhills, and let momentum help carry it over the uphills, so my speed is constantly varying with changing road slope.
 

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james,

would have agreed with you until i got mine. on highway driving my fuel economy went up 3-5 mpg with the cruise, which is alot less than it went down with the wider tires. cruise control gives better gas mileage because of only increasing the power to what is needed to maintain speed, can do it alot better than most drivers. some people (you may be one of them) can beat cruise in mileage, but most can't. and i don't want to concentrate that hard on driving anyway.
 
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