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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
CVT owners need not read, Iv owned my 2000 G-1 for over a year now and have done a multitude of improvements since I go it, but ever since the get-go I knew the axle shafts were undersized and hated the effect when taking off fast, sometimes breaking the front wheels loose and feeling the "rubber band" effect,

the axles are just too wimpy and act like torsion bars, the front tires will go through a "slip and grip" motion and it's totally nasty feeling,,,

but I also questioned the frequency of the effect on a particular problem I have --- I have clutch chatter when trying to take off slow, so I speculated that maybe what's making it far worse is the "springing" effect of the 19.8mm axle shafts...

so called a tech at rock-auto to see what the size of the aftermarket trac-motions were, I believe he told me 24mm shafts --- well I got them yesterday and they are really only 22.1 mm, but that's still a huge difference esp. the passenger side which is doubly as long as the driver side is - so it's by far your critical link if you can only afford to get one shaft get that one, but I got both,,,

I put them in last night - took the car out and WOW what a nice difference,,, I can light up the front hides if I want and it just burns through without pogo-ing and spooling up the wimpy shaft then breaking loose then grabbing and spooling up repeat repeat,,, that's all gone now,,,

The added bennie is my theory was also correct on the clutch chatter, it upset the rebound frequency and all but eliminated it - I still feel pulsations but now that they cannot get compounded by the axle shaft acting as a torsion bar they do not get out of control --- this was very upsetting when wanting to baby the car and take off slow and then having the whole vehicle go into "shake mode" not anymore,,,

so - just sharing this, if you have similar problems with your G-1 Manual you might want to check into this remedy... gaining only 2.3mm (or close to .090") of axle diameter may not sound like allot but when it's over the course of many feet it definitely all adds up...

My old shafts and joints were still good - no ripped boots or anything - but I knew these cars had a problem in this area so took a chance at tossing a beef up solution at it and it panned out great...

below is the pic of the two long shafts and you can see the size difference - there's kinda an optical illusion going on with the dampener making the old shaft look a little bigger than it actually is - just block the dampener out with the tip of your pinky and you will see what i mean,,,

White Product Black Automotive tire Coil spring
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi yes like the post title says it's for a G-1 2000 manual trans,,, im not sure about any of the following years did not research that but id bet it's the same for manuals all the way to 2006

pt # is HO-8446 for the longer passenger side (right) and HO-8447 for the shorter drivers side (left)
 

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Would be interesting to know weights? Torsional stiffness of solid round bar goes up with fourth power of diameter so +55% for your numbers. If they are gun-drilled it might be a bit different depending on wall thicknesses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I forgot to weigh the long ones, but I did weigh the shorter ones with just this cheap digital weight strap meter i have --- both weighed 8.4 lbs.

totally agree with not much extra diameter making a huge difference as most of the strength is in the exoskeleton for all different kinds of measurements including torsional, If it equates to your specs that's even beyond my expectations thanks for posting,,,

I can tell you that the new long one is not just forged into shape - it's machined the entire length which is a nice surprise for running true im thinking...
 

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I forgot to weigh the long ones, but I did weigh the shorter ones with just this cheap digital weight strap meter i have --- both weighed 8.4 lbs.

totally agree with not much extra diameter making a huge difference as most of the strength is in the exoskeleton for all different kinds of measurements including torsional, If it equates to your specs that's even beyond my expectations thanks for posting,,,

I can tell you that the new long one is not just forged into shape - it's machined the entire length which is a nice surprise for running true im thinking...

Nice job!
On a scale of 1-10 regarding difficulty of installation what would you rate this job?
Any special tools required? Any tricks you found during the swap?
Thanks for sharing!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Id rate the difficulty at about a 2 but then again im 4.5 decades of being a certified master tech. --- still - it's easy peasy no worries, the rout I took was simply just remove the wheel - undue the major CV axle shaft nut - center of wheel,,,
then instead of messing with the aluminum hub with the lower control arm ball joint and tapered fitting I just removed the foreword lower control arm to frame bolt - and loosen the rear lower control arm mount/bushing ---

now you can simply pull back the entire hub with control arm and dislodge the CV axle shaft from hub --- then get a pry bar and pop the inner joint out from transmission - it's out --- install is reverse of removal...

you do have three 12mm head bolts to remove a bracket to get to the foreword 17mm bolt head of the frame to lower control arm...

have to say --- so glad I did not throw a clutch job at this and in fact that's one of the main reasons for trying this first --- I took the car for another drive today --- I cannot get it to clutch chatter,,, I feel the deviation but it's subtle and never turns into chatter at all...

I just saved some coin and allot of extra labor...

keep in mind - measure your axle shafts first --- they may already have been replaced in which case installing upgrades will not make the change I experienced...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
How many miles on your existing clutch?
about 157,000 far from worn out - will light up the front tires and plenty of pedal left just has slight P.plate or flywheel deviation but nothing serious "anymore" I can take off in slow mo and cannot get chatter anymore... the skinny axles were setting up a rebound pattern and making the clutch deviation way way worse than it actually is...
 

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Interesting info. I would have never thought the axle shafts play a part in the sloppy feeling drivetrain - there's a lot of it, all over. At only $60 per side, I might have to try these out at some point. Drivetrain slop (between ground and transmission) is one of the things I dislike most about the Insight... I wonder if the alleged weak axles are responsible for this weird, nasty pogoing-like effect I get when I hit say a manhole under load, like up a hill? It always happens up this one hill in my area, as soon as one of the front wheels hits an abrupt bump, I think it's a manhole cover, under the load of the hill, the front end spazzes-out, a kind of springy rubber band feel...

This sounds a lot like what I experience - 'slip and grip':
...the axles are just too wimpy and act like torsion bars, the front tires will go through a "slip and grip" motion and it's totally nasty feeling.
So... Do the stock axles just twist under too much load and 'spring' back - is that what this torsion bar-like effect is? That would make total sense for what I'm feeling, that I don't like...
 

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Wow. I felt this the other day pulling onto the road. Hit a bit of dirt and chirp-chirp-chirp. I also wonder if this is contributing to shudder while backing up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So... Do the stock axles just twist under too much load and 'spring' back - is that what this torsion bar-like effect is? That would make total sense for what I'm feeling, that I don't like...
Yes they totally twist,,, in fact it's normal for all axles just a part of doing business --- many an axle company used to paint straight lines on the axles to keep an eye on if they did not "bounce back" if the paint went spiral in static mode then the axles were known to be pushed past their resilience level and taken out of service,,,
these axles are tiny --- and they still have a fair size tire to move even though not as much weight on it, when taking off with everything the engines got (which granted ain't much lol) they will absolutely spool up and since the most traction of the tire is just before breaking loose the spool up is at maximum --- then the tire gives - then the shaft gets to unload it's energies because it's easier to spin the wheel - then when the axle discharges the tire stops, then the engines flywheel momentum spools up the axle shaft again --- repeat repeat repeat,,, sounds like the engines rocking back and forth hitting the firewall - even though you know all your motor mounts are solid...

I can definitely see the scenario your describing as having an effect too - the tire leaves the ground or gets light under full throttle - the axle discharges energies and gets the wheel whipping while light and then touchdown and what you may be hearing it the momentum of the wheel itself forces into a catch up to ground speed stop,,, "clunk" you also need to make sure your motor mounts are solid before you assume it's axle...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Wow. I felt this the other day pulling onto the road. Hit a bit of dirt and chirp-chirp-chirp. I also wonder if this is contributing to shudder while backing up.
lol first example sounds allot like spring storage axle shafts lol

shutter whilst backing up they may be a factor but id also check motor mounts esp. the one that handles engine transmission counteracting torsion,,, its the one that resides dead center underneath at the rear of the engine/transmission...
 

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^ Interesting indeed. I'm convinced... So, is it just the TrakMotive axles that are thicker, or maybe other aftermarkets are too? I saw a lot of Cardones on Amazon...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I did not research the others - the trakmotives are already from a place I frequently order parts from and are very reasonably priced as you already know, also right in the specs they have a tech number you can call so that's the route I took.
 

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Interesting, I'm also having that "shudder" effect. That's a pretty long CV axle! Only way I've found to reduce the shudder is to give it more gas and let the clutch slip more, relying on the torque from the ima, tho my engine mounts are old so it could be that too. But once I drained the IMA down to empty and tried so start from a stop, it shook like mad!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Interesting, I'm also having that "shudder" effect. That's a pretty long CV axle! Only way I've found to reduce the shudder is to give it more gas and let the clutch slip more, relying on the torque from the ima, tho my engine mounts are old so it could be that too. But once I drained the IMA down to empty and tried so start from a stop, it shook like mad!
Now this sounds very familiar ---- especially when cold for some reason my shudder was worse but it would do it all the time if I did not do as you described - for me it was tack the engine up some and then get into the take off with a little "conviction" anotherwords immediately load the system and don't baby it --- then I could get past the reverberating/rebound harmonics,

I can't remember what it acted like with a drained pack, that does make some sense though because you would not be able to load the system as much, also relying more on pulsating engine power (power strokes) than the smooth 13 hp electric assist....
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
You are wise to question your engine/trans mounts especially the torque mount --- there's one on top of each side engine and trans, and one under in the center towards the back, that's the one most responsible for handling torsional loading...
 

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You are wise to question your engine/trans mounts especially the torque mount --- there's one on top of each side engine and trans, and one under in the center towards the back, that's the one most responsible for handling torsional loading...
Yea, i know some people have filled theirs with silicone to help with slop. I bought a new one recently and also filled it with silicone but haven't gotten the chance to put it on yet. Hopefully later today since i have the front end apart because I hit a racoon and have to replace the condenser, radiator, bend back the lower rad support. 👿Damn racoon...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
My torsion mount was one of the first things i did because mine was trashed from all the shudder, it helped in the form of at least it not sounding like uncontrolled loose banging but it really did not take care of the initial problem...
 
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