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Any reason the Mean Well ELG-75-C350 couldn't be used in a charger?

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/ELG-75-C350/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt5PRBMPTWcaQfhArPaNvLNzZDw6AAJ2%2bcaTdVv9uumHw==

107-214v, 350ma, variants have adjustable current. Not sure how the dimming feature works (PWM?) or if it would cause issues.
Downsides:

The case is a functional ground, which may mean it's not isolated.
The dimming feature (current output) requires a 0-10V input. 0V is 0 current. 10V is 350mA - this would be a pain.
It's fairly large.
107V min means it may be slow to charge a pack from deep discharges.
More expensive than 2X APC-35-350:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/APC-35-350/?qs=/ha2pyFaduhqX1IQj8Fi%2bTjEk8ANIwkJnpJqsZ2gpdgmwiZXOgwOfg==

These give you 56-200V range for about $8 less.
 

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Downsides:

The case is a functional ground, which may mean it's not isolated.
The dimming feature (current output) requires a 0-10V input. 0V is 0 current. 10V is 350mA - this would be a pain.
It's fairly large.
107V min means it may be slow to charge a pack from deep discharges.
More expensive than 2X APC-35-350:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/APC-35-350/?qs=/ha2pyFaduhqX1IQj8Fi%2bTjEk8ANIwkJnpJqsZ2gpdgmwiZXOgwOfg==

These give you 56-200V range for about $8 less.
Good to know! Those look great.

EDIT: What's your first choice in inexpensive 12v supplies?
 

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Good to know! Those look great.
They're my go-to. 100V is a nice increment. 2X for anything Honda, 3X for Most Toyotas, 4X for Gen1 Prius and the 40 module units (Lexus and GM).
 

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I am a wannabe insighter. If/when I get one, I would be interested in a grid charger. I am also a cheap SOB and would be more interested in contacting nearby fellow insighters and renting one for a small fee. I would think that a 12 pack of good beer would be a fare rental fee. :D I would guess that within a half hour drive, there are a few.
Wait. You want to "rent" my $800+ grid charger for a 12 pack? And you probably want to take it with you? And you want to connect it to a harness that might or might not be compatible? My charger does not leave my house. So you want to leave your car here for a couple of days and expect ME to babysit the process?

Let's reverse this. Grid charging is not a one-time deal. You need to do it repeatedly on a schedule. Every Insight owner needs to have their own and use it appropriately. So I suggest you build (less than $100) or buy (many choices) your own and then make your money back by "renting" it to others.

Seriously, consider the cost of a grid charger part of the price of admission. You will more than get it back in increased battery life and improved performance.

Sam
 

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Hypermiler
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I am a wannabe insighter. If/when I get one, I would be interested in a grid charger. I am also a cheap SOB and would be more interested in contacting nearby fellow insighters and renting one for a small fee. I would think that a 12 pack of good beer would be a fare rental fee. :D I would guess that within a half hour drive, there are a few.
I'm cheap also. Bring your car to me, stay at the local b&b (clean & reasonably priced), and I'll grid charge for the cost of lunch.

Caution, I eat a lot.

btw: it would be an ojt experience so you can teach the next 'new' owner. :)

+1 on Rainsux, every G1 owner should have a grid charger.
 

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testing new LED drivers

i bot a pair of these off of ebay to test because they have input filters and are much more substantial than the smaller drivers.

(18-25 )x1W Dimmable AC170-265V/ DC54-90V Driver Power Supply For LED Light Lamp | eBay

and i use a center tap on my battery at the bottom of stick #11 to connect the top of the lower charger and the bottom of the upper charger to the pack to reduce the variance in final charge between the two sections. also notice that i combined opposite phases of the input AC of each charger to try to keep electrical noise down on the input. these are good for either 120V AC or 240V AC.

construction: glued to some battery separator plastic sheet with contact cement but first i removed the drain down resistor R6 across the output caps since i leave the charger attached permanently. used a bottle of water to clamp the drivers into the contact cement overnight, and initial charge rate into my 150V pack was 400mA and now dropping as the voltage climbs. these are cheap and much better built than all the others for the same price. recommending. dm
 

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I don't see any advantage over the meanwells for $1 more:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/APC-35-350/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduhqX1IQj8Fi%252bTjEk8ANIwkJnpJqsZ2gpdgmwiZXOgwOfg%3d%3d


Not sure why you would split them like that at stick 11. You have introduced a potential imbalance where one would not exist if you simply put them in series at the pack ends. With your configuration, you have potentially different current running through the pack halves vs. the same current running through the whole pack.
 

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show me

show me the circuit analysis that demonstrates your argument. i feel better about keeping the voltage across either of them limited to 90V.

if you wanna show me the inside of one of those meanwells we can go through the different components but i doubt if the meanwell has input filters or parts of the same quality.

i have used two other types besides this one and this one has pushed more current than the others.

i never use the plastic cases, i have a pile of cases laying around already.

but i always use a center tap, these first 2 pictures are the balancing charger on my insight. the second two are of the other type of driver, mounted back to back, on one of my HCHs. connected by a wire running from one to the other through the foam separator.

anyway, show me the guts of the meanwell so we can discuss the components. my estimate of the circuit is that i will have better balance of each section. jmho.
 

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Why do you "feel better about keeping the voltage across either of them limited to 90V?"

Feelings generally don't play into it.

I can't tell from the picture. Do you have 1 circuit or two?
 

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2 circuits

one across sticks 1-10 and the other across 11-20 and the output caps are rated at 100V.

so worst case if the diodes fail or something shorts one driver the caps will be limited to the 90V max across those 10 sticks.

also prevents one section from going above the 90V limit of the LED driver. it will force the other section to catch up at a higher rate imo.

also gotta include shipping from mouser, but i think these are the best deal out of the 3 types i have tested. 400mA is almost 30% higher than the others.
 

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Two circuits, two currents. Potential for variance confirmed.

One circuit, one current. No variance.

400mA? The ones you linked are 300mA±5%, which comes to 285-315mA. If your 400mA is based on the GT Power 130A or similar unit, consider you're measuring 0.4A on something rated for 130A. I wouldn't put any faith in its accuracy. I have one, and at a 20A current, it's about 7% optimistic.

You appear to design based on aggressive safety. Consider 3 diodes, one at each battery connection and one in between the leads in series. If any single diode fails at any point, it's still a non-issue.

Not sure why you have a concern with the 90V. If they're like every other LED PS, they'll just sit there at peak voltage and taper current based on the potential.

When wired in series without splitting the pack, you get a single current that is the lowest output of the two, and they will regulate their voltage as needed to support the output current based on pack voltage. Each and every cell gets EXACTLY the same current - no variance. Depending on consistency, your setup has a built-in variance potential of 10%.

The only benefit that I see to your setup is the PS will be at whatever voltage the pack half requires - presumably something close to the other. This means that they will be consuming similar power. In my series example, one is usually at max power while the other is at a lower power.

$4.99 for economy shipping, which typically takes 3-4 days plus another $2 in price and 17% higher current from a reputable source with a reliable brand. I'm good with that. I've never had a Meanwell product DOA. I've had plenty of no-name, direct from China/HK electronics bits DOA.
 

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Building grid charger - low/no voltage out of LED drivers

Just put together my grid charger (first picture). Used the LED drivers (AC85-265V 30-90V 300mA Power Supply Driver Adapter for 18-25x1W LED StripLight) used by many here. Did I get bad LED drivers or am I missing something?

I'm not getting any voltage (or minimal - 2-3 volts) on the output side of the drivers.

In the second picture the driver has been opened up to show the internals. The input is on the left and the output is on the right. I measured the voltage on the input side of the driver (line voltage at about 117V AC) and on the output side and only got about 1.5V DC.

There are no adjustments on the drivers at all so I assume they should be putting out full voltage right away, unless there something about "constant current" devices I don't understand, like they need a load before the measure any output voltage.

I thought I might have one bad driver, so I measured both and they both had similar (lack of) output voltages. Did I get TWO bad drivers, or what?

(Will post full text of my build as soon as I get chgr working.)
 

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If you didn't guess by my posts, I have a very low opinion of those.

Scroll up for my recommendations.
 

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As the name imples, constant current drivers are going to try to output a constant current, instead of a constant voltage. However, many constant current devices have fault protection circuitry that takes over if the supply's output limits are reached. For example, let's assume your CC supply has a 63-230 volt range... if the output resistance is so low that it pulls the output voltage below 63 volts, then the supply will disable itself (because the supply assumes there's a short in the nonexistent LED chain). In a similar fashion, if the logic rises above 230 volts, then the supply will also disable.

Thus, some LED supplies require the output voltage to rise to an in-range voltage within a specified time, or else they disable. In your case, if you're plugging the supply in without first connecting it to the battery, then the supply might be reaching the 230 volt limit (e.g.), at which point it disables itself.

I haven't looked at your specific CC driver, but I would certainly recommend getting a single driver that can output the entire desired output range (say 100-205 volts, for example). Placing two CC drivers in series (as you've done) can cause any one supply's output voltage to saturate... for example, one supply settles on 64 volts, while the other one rests at 120 volts... in which case, the one supply is sourcing much more power.

Anywho, there's no reason CC LED drivers won't work... this is specifically what they're designed to do, and they do a good job at it. I'm not up to speed on your implementation, but I recommend checking your assumptions and reading over my advice.
 

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The dimming feature (current output) requires a 0-10V input. 0V is 0 current. 10V is 350mA - this would be a pain.
It's fairly large.
Not really, just use a simple two resistor voltage divider to set the output current (if that's what you're trying to do). You could even get uber fancy and use a potentiometer to set the output current to whatever you want.

107V min means it may be slow to charge a pack from deep discharges.
Agreed, legitimate concern if you're going to deep discharge; you must get over the pack's self-recovery voltage or else the CC driver won't kick in (as it thinks there's a short and disables itself). If you have problems getting the initial voltage, add a high power series resistor in series until the pack voltage proper gets above the minimum start voltage.
 

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As the name imples, constant current drivers are going to try to output a constant current, instead of a constant voltage. However, many constant current devices have fault protection circuitry that takes over if the supply's output limits are reached. For example, let's assume your CC supply has a 63-230 volt range... if the output resistance is so low that it pulls the output voltage below 63 volts, then the supply will disable itself (because the supply assumes there's a short in the nonexistent LED chain). In a similar fashion, if the logic rises above 230 volts, then the supply will also disable.

Thus, some LED supplies require the output voltage to rise to an in-range voltage within a specified time, or else they disable. In your case, if you're plugging the supply in without first connecting it to the battery, then the supply might be reaching the 230 volt limit (e.g.), at which point it disables itself.

I haven't looked at your specific CC driver, but I would certainly recommend getting a single driver that can output the entire desired output range (say 100-205 volts, for example). Placing two CC drivers in series (as you've done) can cause any one supply's output voltage to saturate... for example, one supply settles on 64 volts, while the other one rests at 120 volts... in which case, the one supply is sourcing much more power.

Anywho, there's no reason CC LED drivers won't work... this is specifically what they're designed to do, and they do a good job at it. I'm not up to speed on your implementation, but I recommend checking your assumptions and reading over my advice.
Out of about a dozen different meanwell models of low current, high voltage power supplies, I have never seen one behave as you describe.

Ever.

Furthermore, others that have used those models of power supplies haven't.

On Meanwells and others that have used that unit, when energized, if there is no load, voltage is at max.
 

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I have a grid charger made from the same supplies x'civicr asks about. They put out about 185V unloaded (two in series). I've run them on a pack below 65 volts and they squeal and pulse for a bit until voltage reaches the minimum... I don't think they're the greatest supplies; at some point they started to put out only about 250mA and the output never seemed totally consistent - unlike the single Meanwell supply I use now that seems to be rock solid... Oh, also, I think Peter P. once included them in a list of supplies that aren't appropriate because they aren't isolated correctly or something like that... But, I did use them for a long time and they seemed to work... Many others have as well...
 

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More on Low voltage ouput from LED drivers

Here's photo of output side of my LED driver showing minimal voltage output, even though supply side showed 117V AC. Just I might have gotten a couple of bum ones. See if I can return for exchange or swap for some other drivers.
 

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Here's photo of output side of my LED driver showing minimal voltage output, even though supply side showed 117V AC. Just I might have gotten a couple of bum ones. See if I can return for exchange or swap for some other drivers.
Thank you for your photos! It's really helped!
 
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