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I've had good success so far with the hch2 pack I did for my 2007 no recals after 6 months low self discharge & functioning normally.The pack was from a wreck & had been sitting for about a year & took about 12 cycles till the capacity stopped improving with regenerative discharge hobby chargercycling .

I have been toying with the idea of active balancing on these packs to keep them good for longer finally bit the bullet & bought some active balancing modules from china..... gonna have a play on my g1 insight pack. These balancers are rated possibly up to 17v cell max so I will need 5 for my 20 insight pack sticks.They also have bluetooth so can display battery data on android & iphones.https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Newly-Active-Bluetooth-Battery-Equalizer-2V_62396683343.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.502e4948dEWUko
 

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Discussion Starter · #142 ·
I've had good success so far with the hch2 pack I did for my 2007 no recals after 6 months low self discharge & functioning normally.The pack was from a wreck & had been sitting for about a year & took about 12 cycles till the capacity stopped improving with regenerative discharge hobby chargercycling .
12 cycles..? That's quite interesting.

I have been toying with the idea of active balancing on these packs to keep them good for longer finally bit the bullet & bought some active balancing modules from china..... gonna have a play on my g1 insight pack. These balancers are rated possibly up to 17v cell max so I will need 5 for my 20 insight pack sticks.They also have bluetooth so can display battery data on android & iphones.https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Newly-Active-Bluetooth-Battery-Equalizer-2V_62396683343.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.502e4948dEWUko
I never thought about that. Also very interesting. I would think that this could dramatically increase the life of the cells. Please keep us informed.
Do you want to do this per stick? Stick differences can be very small and still be a problem. You would have to do this on the cell level to be effective I think. You can have large imbalances in a stick and still have a very small resting voltage difference with other sticks.
Very interesting concept. How about the 100A current? Could that be a problem for the balancer?
 

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Discussion Starter · #143 ·
This morning I got the first positive recalibration. Time to act. I will have time to take the pack out of the car in about 2 weeks.
 

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catadarius:
Please include your Location in your Profile, as ALL G1 Insighters have done.
Thank You.
Willie
 

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Discussion Starter · #146 ·
It has been about 7 months since my last reconditioning. I got my first negative recalibration yesterday. Not bad. Time for another reconditioning soon.
The performance of the pack the last 7 months has been very good. Quite consistent.
Actually, with the current condition of my pack it would make sense to use a grid charger.
 

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Discussion Starter · #147 · (Edited)
Hi guys,
It has been now 13 months since my last reconditioning, I got my first negative recal 7 months in. The pack is still working fine. No IMA light, but the recals have become a bit more frequent.
I finally bought a 2007 Type R FN2. I am very happy.

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I pulled the pack of the HCH2 for its last reconditioning. Then it will get a good maintenance and cleaning and it will get a new home. Good friends of mine, a family with 2 small kids will take it.
It has now 325.000 km and is still working perfectly. And it still has a good functioning original IMA of 11 years old (with 3 replacement cells from an insight).

So, this might really be my last post here. Again I want to thank this community for the knowledge and support.
And you know what..? The HCH2 batteries are not so bad after all if you take care of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #148 ·
The reconditioning will be as follows.
1. The pack has rested for 3 days. I do not remember what the SOC was when I parked it.
2. Discharge per cell at 2A to 1V.
3. Discharge per cell at 0,6A to 0,6V
4. Discharge per cell at 0,1A to 0,1V - This is for me a good deep discharge on the cell level.
5. Charge per module to full at 3A.
6 Using regenerative discharge I will cycle each module 3 times, down to 12V (1V / cell). Last time I did this at 5A. Now I will go for 3A. I think it will give better results. And I do have more time now because I have another car.

That should do it. I hope that my friends will have a good 2 years with no problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #149 ·
My HCH2 is sold. I gave her a thorough reconditioning and a good maintenance at the dealer. Yesterday it was good bye. It was an emotional day. I had her for almost 12 years.
I am happy she is getting a good new home. My friends who bought it are super happy with it.

I of course offered to recondition the IMA for them when needed. We will see.
 

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OK,

The RAW collection of information is a document where I copy pasted anything I found that could be useful. Many different opinions and crap in there indeed. But it helped me to make my choices based on my objectives.

The Report is my own journey, course of action and changes of course of action, remarks, thoughts, findings, etc. Steve is right, the most useful is the google sheet.

In short:

My initial plan was to measure IR of all individual cells. Diagnose the cells wit high IR and do as deep discharge as I can with my equipment to try to reverse the high IR. The other cells with normal IR, can be just cycled through the whole module (pair of sticks) to restore capacity. Simple, right? NOT.

I realised I can not measure the IR of cells accurately. So the new plan is:

To avoid reversals, I discharge each cell separately to 0,6V with a rate of 2A, which is right under the 0,68V mark. If I find a funny acting cell, I bring it down to 0,4V @ 0,2A, charge 2000 mAh @ 6A and back down to 0,6V.

Steve, on hindsight, I now would like to have the possibility to discharge at 6A, but my "scientific gut feeling" tells me not more. I want to be gentle on my sweet cells, they have suffered a lot. 2A will do for now. The only thing is I now practically live in my workshop with short naps around the clock to get this done in a reasonable amount of time. I am lucky I have an understanding woman.

After the individual cell's "balancing discharge" to 0,6V, I bring the whole module to 0,2V/cell @ 0,2A. I assume that there will be no reversals this way. (And my thinking is that the slow deep discharge, will keep the cells for some time in low voltages and I trust sssr2's theory about reversal of crystallization and oxidation is correct and this will provide some improvement in IR in combination with the subsequent charge at 6A after.)
Let them rest "empty".

Start again with module 1 in the same sequence up to 11:

CHG 6A to DV cut off
CHG 0,2A for x hours - to full charge
(Target input 8800 mAh total - Thanks Steve! - Calculate “trickle” charge duration based on this number, after the 6A charge)
DSC 2A to 1,1V/cell
DSC 0,2A to 0,8V/cell
CHG 6A to DV cut off

Based on what I read and on my "scientific gut feeling", this regimen will do most good. I am not sorting sticks, I don't have access to replacements. I gently bring them down low and balance while avoiding reversals and do 1 thorough cycle.

Later on I can get more advance equipment, IR measuring, Reaktor 1000W, etc. Maybe a second battery and more time, and do a more in depth work. Who knows. I am definitely enjoying this. I have good hopes.
Step 2: CHG and IR calculations

I read about the benefits of deep discharge for prolonged periods of time. That it is beneficial to the cells to sustain long periods of being empty.
So, between each step of the process I let the modules rest after discharges, while I treat the next module. And I hoped this would be good.

After the initial balancing discharge and module deep discharge, I charged each module using the IMAX B6 mini's Auto Charge mode.
The Auto charge mode tests the battery and regulates the current. It was starting with low current to get them out of the deep discharge state and would gradually increase current. The maximum power of the IMAX was 3,4A for a whole module (60W).
Some modules never reached that. Some eventually were charged with 3,4A and some only got 0,7A (which is a forming charge of 0,1C). That was interesting. Did those modules need that and others didn't? Was it beneficial? I don't know.

After full charge of 8800 mAh, I let them rest for about an hour and then:
1. I put a load and measure the V drop of each cell.
2. I discharged the module for 2000 mAh.
3. Put a load and measure V drop again.
4. Discharge the module further to 0,9V/cell.

I used those V drop measurements to calculate the IR of each cell at full charge and at -2000 mAh state.
That gave me a very good overview of the cells with high IR.

The discharge of a whole 12-cell module with the IMAΧ goes at a rate of 0,3A. IMAX B6 has 5W of discharge power. It was painstakingly slow. But again, I do wonder if this slow rate of discharge was beneficial to the health of the cells.

One thing was clear: the cells discharged very equally at this slow rate to 0,9V. I was occasionally checking cell voltages.

One theory is that the Charge Transfer (electrons) is a very fast process. But the Mass Transfer in the chemical reaction is a slow process. According to this theory, slow charges and discharges should be more rejuvenating to the cells. Again, I don't know.

Each module was treated and left to rest "empty".

Result at the end of this step:
1. The cells are balanced
2. All modules have had 1 cycle
3. I have a full map of the cell's IR
Hallo,ik heb een honda hybrid 2008 waar de IMA brand.
Mijn vraag is,kunt u deze laden voor mij en wat zou dat kosten?
Gr Romy
 

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If you can read and quote English, why not respond in english. Most members are either U.S. , Canadian or U.K., whose native language is English.
 

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Google translator, "My question is, can you load it for me and what would it cost? "

I think you have the essence of his procedure in the two posts you quoted. Maybe he will respond directly.

Ik denk dat je de essentie van zijn procedure hebt in de twee berichten die je hebt geciteerd. Misschien zal hij direct reageren.
 

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Discussion Starter · #153 ·
Hallo,ik heb een honda hybrid 2008 waar de IMA brand.
Mijn vraag is,kunt u deze laden voor mij en wat zou dat kosten?
Gr Romy
Hello Roooy,

Sorry for my late reply. I don't come here often.
To recondition an IMA battery is a lot of work. Just charging it up will not solve your problem.
I obviously did it for my car, but if I would charge money for it, it would be too expensive. That would cost more than the value of the car.
 

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@Paddow thank you for these posts. I have built an Arduino-based stick conditioner that pierces the wrapper so that I can selectively discharge individual cells. I just saw this thread for the first time, and your posts confirm things I'm seeing in my early tests of charging and discharging.

Thank you so much for communicating what you have learned. It is helping me refine my own pack rebuilding process. Your new car sounds great, and I wish we had a forum for it here, so that we could hear about what interesting project you might wrap around it.

Best!
 

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Discussion Starter · #155 ·
@Paddow thank you for these posts. I have built an Arduino-based stick conditioner that pierces the wrapper so that I can selectively discharge individual cells. I just saw this thread for the first time, and your posts confirm things I'm seeing in my early tests of charging and discharging.

Thank you so much for communicating what you have learned. It is helping me refine my own pack rebuilding process. Your new car sounds great, and I wish we had a forum for it here, so that we could hear about what interesting project you might wrap around it.

Best!
Thank you Sean!
 

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Discussion Starter · #156 ·
Update. My friend who got my HCH2 got an IMA light. It has been 9 months since the last reconditioning.
I am sure that the problem was that they went on summer holiday for 5 weeks. The car stood still for 5 weeks.
So, tomorrow she's bringing it to me. I will do another reconditioning for them. Hopefully it will be good until their next summer holidays. LOL.
Setting up the battle station!
 

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Discussion Starter · #157 · (Edited)
New reconditioning. I pulled the pack, took it apart and measured the RV of the subpacks. And then I measured again after 24h.
The RV variation after 24h is 0,18V from max to min. The self discharge of the subpacks is between 0,2 and 0,25V after 24h. So, not so bad. I see no outliers so I will not go to the cell level this time.
My plan is: Charge per subpack at 1A to full. Discharge to 1V/cell, so 12V per subpack at 1A. I choose to do the first cycle at low current to be gentle. Then I will do 2 more cycles at 3A. I will record the capacity of every charge and discharge.
I will not do a deep discharge this time.
Maybe next year, I might do a deep discharge, but for now the subpacks look quite good.
Deep discharge I only do at the cell level. If I do a deep discharge on a whole subpack, the cells do not discharge at the same rate when you go under 1V/cell. Some will inevitably reverse and some will never go under 0,7 or 0,8V.

By the way, when I was disassembling the pack, one screw on one of the sticks was loose. That is a bit worrisome. I hope this will not happen again....
 

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Discussion Starter · #158 · (Edited)
Reconditioning is done and the IMA works as it should. Still... the cell level work with a deep discharge gives better results.
During the test drive I did, the car did 1 positive recalibration, which is not strange. But every time I did proper cell level reconditioning in the past it never recalibrated after installation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #159 ·
Happy New Year Everyone!

The last reconditioning I did was about 3 months ago.
My friend brought the car back with the IMA light back on. And she tells me... you know.. it came on about 2 weeks after the reconditioning! But she did not call me earlier.
Oooops. 2 weeks..
We all know what that means. Right? Yes we do.
There is a dead cell or two in there.
In the coming days I pull the pack to check it. I still have some spare cells for replacements. I hope I can find 1 or 2 good ones.
That's gonna be fun.. NOT.
 

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Discussion Starter · #160 · (Edited)
The car has been sitting for about 3 weeks. I pulled the pack and measured the Resting Voltage of each cell. I have 7 suspects.

Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Pattern



Some of them might get fixed. The ones who don't I will have to replace.
 
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