Help! Car ran but will not crank now.
1061
33
Hello everyone, a few days ago I was on my way to vacation when my 2006 5 spd had the battery light come on briefly, then the IMA light flashed a few times before staying on for a few miles, then the battery light flashed again and the car started driving weird, I pulled over at a crossroads in rural NC where I turned off the car to check under the hood to make sure nothing looked weird. Everything under the hood looked good so I started the car and drove about 20 feet where the car sputtered and died. One of the relays in the IMA battery was clicking like crazy when the car was off, I've attached a photo of my pointing on that relay. I figured the IMA died despite some of the symptoms not lining up, I disconnected the IMA via the 2 connectors in the battery and reset the IMA by pulling the 30a fuse under the hood. The car started on the 12v starter and ran for about 30 seconds before stalling out. After that nothing I could do would get the car to crank. Waited 4 hours for a tow home (thanks AAA) and continued about on my vacation with another car.
Getting back home to work on the car I jumped the OBD 2 port and got the following codes flashed at me:
EPS: 22 and 23
ABS: 61 and 81
IMA light was steadily lit on the dash but did not flash any codes.
Used my code reader and got a P0A64 and P1430 stored codes but the light was not on while driving.
Looking on this forum the EPS and ABS codes seem to me to all relate to 12v issues and wheel sensor issues that might have occurred in the past and the code reader stored codes also all seem to be unrelated but could just be from when I was unplugging and plugging the 2 connectors into the controller.
In trying to do some diagnosis, the immobilizer seems to work (green light goes off when trying to start). I charged/discharged/charged/discharged/and charged the IMA with a grid charger over a few days, reset the IMA with the 30a fuse to no avail, and also disconnected/reconnected the battery to no avail. After doing some more looking on here I checked the grounds, the one near the trans mount looks good but the 2 next to the airbox were pretty corroded which might be an issue?
I should note the car had a coolant leak along the water housing at the end of the head which I fixed recently and the car ran great for about an hour losing no coolant before encountering the above issues. I've tried to wrap my head around this for a few days but I just can't figure it out and information I found looking into the P1430 code looks way over my head.
Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
Getting back home to work on the car I jumped the OBD 2 port and got the following codes flashed at me:
EPS: 22 and 23
ABS: 61 and 81
IMA light was steadily lit on the dash but did not flash any codes.
Used my code reader and got a P0A64 and P1430 stored codes but the light was not on while driving.
Looking on this forum the EPS and ABS codes seem to me to all relate to 12v issues and wheel sensor issues that might have occurred in the past and the code reader stored codes also all seem to be unrelated but could just be from when I was unplugging and plugging the 2 connectors into the controller.
In trying to do some diagnosis, the immobilizer seems to work (green light goes off when trying to start). I charged/discharged/charged/discharged/and charged the IMA with a grid charger over a few days, reset the IMA with the 30a fuse to no avail, and also disconnected/reconnected the battery to no avail. After doing some more looking on here I checked the grounds, the one near the trans mount looks good but the 2 next to the airbox were pretty corroded which might be an issue?
I should note the car had a coolant leak along the water housing at the end of the head which I fixed recently and the car ran great for about an hour losing no coolant before encountering the above issues. I've tried to wrap my head around this for a few days but I just can't figure it out and information I found looking into the P1430 code looks way over my head.
Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
Attachments
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Joined
·
14,251 Posts
Measure the voltage of the 12V battery with a simple multimeter.
Measure once with and without the engine running. What are the voltages?
Without the engine running it should be above 12,0V. With the engine running it should be above 13,25V. When its voltage is below 11,0V let the car charge the battery. If the car doesn't charge the battery, connect an external 12V car battery charger to check that out. The car isn't charging the battery properly when the charge voltage with the engine running is below 13,25V
When the car starts to behave properly after charging the 12V with an external charger for a couple of hours, it could be, the car does not charge the 12V at all or it does not charge it properly.
Idk about the Insight, but IMA cars tend to not have the conventional alternator, bolted on the engine, that takes care of charging the 12V. Instead, that task is transferred to the DC-DC converter, a box that is normally close to the IMA High Voltage battery. This box converts the high IMA battery pack voltage to a low voltage of 12 Volts (in reality something between 13,5 and 14,0V) for charging the 12V battery.
I think I heard more stories on this site about peeps requiring their DC-DC converter to be replaced, maybe yours too.
Measure once with and without the engine running. What are the voltages?
Without the engine running it should be above 12,0V. With the engine running it should be above 13,25V. When its voltage is below 11,0V let the car charge the battery. If the car doesn't charge the battery, connect an external 12V car battery charger to check that out. The car isn't charging the battery properly when the charge voltage with the engine running is below 13,25V
When the car starts to behave properly after charging the 12V with an external charger for a couple of hours, it could be, the car does not charge the 12V at all or it does not charge it properly.
Idk about the Insight, but IMA cars tend to not have the conventional alternator, bolted on the engine, that takes care of charging the 12V. Instead, that task is transferred to the DC-DC converter, a box that is normally close to the IMA High Voltage battery. This box converts the high IMA battery pack voltage to a low voltage of 12 Volts (in reality something between 13,5 and 14,0V) for charging the 12V battery.
I think I heard more stories on this site about peeps requiring their DC-DC converter to be replaced, maybe yours too.
Joined
·
18 Posts
Update: Replaced grounds and car still won't start.
Made some new grounds for the 2 next to the airbox, I've attached a photo below, definitely something that needed to be done but unfortunately did not start the car.
Sondair to your point the battery is at 12.0v right now according to my multimeter and I cannot test the running voltage because the car won't start.
I noticed a buzzing from the passenger foot well when the key is in the start (III) position. Might there be some kind of regulator that could prevent the car from starting?
I checked blink codes again and still no IMA blink codes despite the battery appearing empty and the IMA light staying on. Thanks!
Made some new grounds for the 2 next to the airbox, I've attached a photo below, definitely something that needed to be done but unfortunately did not start the car.
Sondair to your point the battery is at 12.0v right now according to my multimeter and I cannot test the running voltage because the car won't start.
I noticed a buzzing from the passenger foot well when the key is in the start (III) position. Might there be some kind of regulator that could prevent the car from starting?
I checked blink codes again and still no IMA blink codes despite the battery appearing empty and the IMA light staying on. Thanks!
Attachments
Charge your 12V battery up, and have it load tested.
@NC1g, I hope that was a 12V truck right?
In my car, I had the IMA disabled without the ECU knowing about it.
I had to keep the key in the starter position for many seconds on order to activate the traditional 12V starter motor. Also that feels like the motor is not gonna to start in the first few moments.
Ah, mudder is right, after charging the 12V with an external 12V charger for several hours, keeping the key in the start position for 10 seconds, the car should at least start cranking the engine with the conventional 12V starter motor.
@NC1g, you have a 12V battery charger and using it right?
Did you check proper operation of the 12V battery charger, with a multimeter. During charging, the voltage should slowly creep to 14,0V. It can take many hours depending on the charge current the charger can deliver. When you know your 12V battery is depleted, and you connect a charger, when it is done charging your battery, id est, reaching 14,0V, within a too short time, like say within half a hour, your 12V is worn, then you need replacing it.
Put a to the 12V battery connected multimeter on the cars front window facing its display towards you. Now crank the engine and monitor 12V voltage during crank. It should not drop below 8V during the crank. When your multimeter has minimum/maximum value recording, let it record the minimum value during the crank operation.
In my car, I had the IMA disabled without the ECU knowing about it.
I had to keep the key in the starter position for many seconds on order to activate the traditional 12V starter motor. Also that feels like the motor is not gonna to start in the first few moments.
Ah, mudder is right, after charging the 12V with an external 12V charger for several hours, keeping the key in the start position for 10 seconds, the car should at least start cranking the engine with the conventional 12V starter motor.
@NC1g, you have a 12V battery charger and using it right?
Did you check proper operation of the 12V battery charger, with a multimeter. During charging, the voltage should slowly creep to 14,0V. It can take many hours depending on the charge current the charger can deliver. When you know your 12V battery is depleted, and you connect a charger, when it is done charging your battery, id est, reaching 14,0V, within a too short time, like say within half a hour, your 12V is worn, then you need replacing it.
Put a to the 12V battery connected multimeter on the cars front window facing its display towards you. Now crank the engine and monitor 12V voltage during crank. It should not drop below 8V during the crank. When your multimeter has minimum/maximum value recording, let it record the minimum value during the crank operation.
What's the battery voltage in the start position? Nothing in the passenger foot well is directly related to the starter system. Except the ECM, but it hopefully isn't buzzing!
There's a starter relay, but it's on the driver's side, in the under dash fuse panel.
You could try bypassing that relay. It's the middle of the three black relays. You could also try swapping one of the other two relays (taillights, power windows) into the middle position.
Or try connecting a jumper wire from the smaller starter terminal to the positive battery terminal. A wire with a female terminal on the end works great. Always connect to the starter before the battery. And make sure the transmission is not in gear!
Joined
·
18 Posts
Thanks Gasoline Fumes, that's my next relay to test. Over the weekend I swapped relays in the back to ensure the ignition hold relay is working which is the relay that was clicking like crazy when the car died, I also checked the grounds for the relays in the back and those were in good shape. I also ran a wire from the starter solenoid to the battery and confirmed that the 12v starter works.
This car has really had me puzzled for the past few days and even going through the shop manuals hasn't been a huge help. I also need to do a test on the ignition switch to ensure it's sending power.
Additionally the buzzing is coming from the ECU, I pulled back the carpet and had my dad turn the key while I was listening near it. It's just a faint buzz that might not be anything bad but I've been thinking an ECU issue would make some sense. Hopefully not though. Thanks!
This car has really had me puzzled for the past few days and even going through the shop manuals hasn't been a huge help. I also need to do a test on the ignition switch to ensure it's sending power.
Additionally the buzzing is coming from the ECU, I pulled back the carpet and had my dad turn the key while I was listening near it. It's just a faint buzz that might not be anything bad but I've been thinking an ECU issue would make some sense. Hopefully not though. Thanks!
Joined
·
18 Posts
Sondair, I have had the key held in the start position for 10-15 seconds and more sometimes with nothing, I do not have it hooked up to a trickle charger but I guess it couldn't hurt. And yes it was a 12v truck putting out 13.5 volts during my attempt to jump it. Thanks
Phew, lol (had to check it)
Your ECU is inside the cabin?
Did it somehow got some water on it?
Disconnect the 12V and position yourself to the ECU.
Now touch a conducting part of the car's chassis.
Then disconnect and reconnect each connector the ECU has.
Does this solve or change the problem?
Your ECU is inside the cabin?
Did it somehow got some water on it?
Disconnect the 12V and position yourself to the ECU.
Now touch a conducting part of the car's chassis.
Then disconnect and reconnect each connector the ECU has.
Does this solve or change the problem?
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
