[Sparky5501]

Ok, I've been crunching this through my head for a while. Wouldn't it seem like a good idea for Honda to produce the Insight with the powerplant and battery pack from the Civic Hybrid?

It could be a "Special Edition" Insight. The "Sport" model if you will. Think about the possibilities having the 4 cylinder in the insight. More horsepower, better fuel economy, more interior room. Wouldn't it be the ultimate Insight option?

If Honda were to build it, I'd trade my trusty '01 in on a heartbeat.
Has anyone thought of transplanting a Civic Hybrid engine into an Insight?

 

[The Citrus Smoothie]

Please build the IMAS!

Not so sure about a four cylinder Insight, but a 200+bhp engine in an Insight would be interesting :twisted:
By chance I was about to post a plea to Honda to build the IMAS - so I am replying to your post rather than start a new topic.

Dear Honda, Please build the IMAS! It would be fantastic. I for one will be looking to trade in my Honda Insight in a year or two, and will be compelled to buy a 2004 Prius , unless the IMAS is on the market .

To help maximise sales, I suggest that the IMAS (Insight 2) should be available in two specifications - the Extreme and the Comfort. The Extreme would have no compromises, with absolutely no unnecessary weight such as a rear wiper, A/C and power steering. Also perhaps having adjustable electrical assist, regen braking etc so that the truly dedicated green driver can maximise their MPG. The Comfort spec on the other hand would have all the options but would be a get in and drive away car. I could expand further but it could be a very long post!!

 

[Armin]

not more gas

I think making the gas engine bigger is entirely the wrong thing to do! If you need more power (why?), the Insight way would be to make it with a stronger electric motor and battery!

Yes, I know, we had that idea before...

 

[flunkysama]

I'm of the opinion that Honda builds and sells the Insight just to hold the title of cleanest/most fuel effiecent vehicle. A Si version does not really fit in that mindset. While Honda would not mind selling a few more insights, they do not want to sell alot more cars they are loosing money on.

What you really want is not an Insight. What you probably want is at this old link http://www.crxsi.com/resources/CRX_concept/, a new generation CRX.

I also remeber reading magazine articles where Honda said engine transparts were not possible because of unique motor mount locations. (BS?)

 

[james]

Better yet, why not build the new CRX with a hybrid powerplant? Maybe just bolt in the Civic Hybrid one?

After all, that's the main reason I bought my Insight: not for the mpg (though I'm certainly not complaining ), but because I wanted the nearest thing I could get to a new CRX. Small, quick, 2-seat hatchback.

 

[The Citrus Smoothie]

I'm of the opinion that Honda builds and sells the Insight just to hold the title of cleanest/most fuel effiecent vehicle.

This is part of the thinking behind my suggestion of the Insight 2 Extreme

 

[john1701a]

> I think making the gas engine bigger is entirely the wrong thing to do! If you need more power (why?), the Insight way would be to make it with a stronger electric motor and battery!

You just described the upgrade to Prius.


> To help maximize sales

Since Insight is made out of aluminum, which is much more expensive than steel, and not assembly-line produced I couldn't imagine Honda wanting to increase sales anywhere in the near future.

And sorry, with the other hatchback hybrid gaining so much attention, I couldn't imagine the current size Insight ever being produced in large quantities. I'd expect a bigger version instead... one with a back seat.


So what do you think Honda's next hybrid move will be?

 

[Delta Flyer]

I predict Honda will next introduce hybrid versions in the rest of their fleet, including the Accord. Like the Civic, the only difference will be the hybrid engine.

 

[Willie Williford]

4 cyl Insight

Why not go all the way with a NEW GENERATION CRX (with a TURBO) and a close ratio 6 speed with 6th as an overdrive. :twisted:

 

[Aaron Cake]

I'd rather have a bigger electric motor (why not 40KW?) mounted to the input shaft of the transmission instead of the flywheel (all electric operation) and of course a nice big Li-Ion battery pack...Oh yeah, and mount the whole mess in the rear so the car isn't wrong-wheel drive.

 

[Armin]

> I think making the gas engine bigger is entirely the wrong thing to do! If you need more power (why?), the Insight way would be to make it with a stronger electric motor and battery!

You just described the upgrade to Prius.

Ok, I'll bite.

No, I don't want a big, heavy car. I want a light two-seater, just like an Insight!

 

[james]

"... just like an Insight!"

Except lighter. And maybe with a turbo, a really performance-oriented suspension, more control over the assist, and other performance tweaks. Then position it somewhere between the current Insight and the NSX, and sell it at a profit...

 

[Foxpaw]

I don't think that Honda will use a Lithium Ion battery pack, even if they do upgrade the engine, due to the fantastic hazards posed by lithium ion batteries. They are quite flammable, and combined with the ability to generate large electrical arcs, the danger is clear.

Normally, lithium ion batteries are quite safe, because they incorporate a protection circuit to prevent overcharging, overheating, or bursting from a buildup of pressure. However, these protection circuits, like any other electrical component in your car, can fail, and if they do, (or if the cells are ruptured in a collision) Lithium Ion batteries can burst into flames, which of course melts open all the other cells and lights them on fire too, so the fire can very quickly rage out of control. Coupled with the fact that they aren't too far away from the gas tank and can burn quite hot, using lithium ion batteries on a hybrid car is about as safe as filling the hatch with TNT.

Having said that, the chance of the protection circuit failing, or of you being involved in a collision is small, so it's really up to the consumer if they want to use lithium ion batteries. I don't think Honda would make them standard, though, because of the potential liability should the pack catch fire.

 

[b1shmu63]

While the Prius is the world leader in its class, this middle aged teenager has no interest in driving a 3000 pound biodegradable ferrous sedan.

If the IMAS never hits the road, my wish list would be the following for the Insight.

1. Leave the 3 cylinder engine alone (They sound great and are inherently smooth)

2. Double or triple the size of the IMA as that will give you the most torque per pound and improve regenerative braking.

3. Mount the 4 inch thick battery pack from the Civic vertically behind the seats to dramatically increase the rear storage area.

4. Use LEDs for brake lights, Rankin cycle engine, thermal storage, hot air intake, etc., to improve efficiency.

5. Cruise control with mileage or speed option.

6. Optional leather.

 

[Aaron Cake]

I don't think that Honda will use a Lithium Ion battery pack, even if they do upgrade the engine, due to the fantastic hazards posed by lithium ion batteries. They are quite flammable, and combined with the ability to generate large electrical arcs, the danger is clear.

You mean, like the 50 litres of gasoline about 3 feet behind you, being pumped under pressure (directly under your feet) to an engine which uses HV coils for the specific purpose of generating a spark and igniting this fuel?

 

[james]

Lithium is, IIRC, even more reactive than sodium, and that will burst into flames just from contact with water.

 

[Sparky5501]

I was thinking along these lines about the Civic into Insight engine option.

Honda already has it's more efficient 4 cylinder produced, so there would be less initial development cost to get to to fit into the Insight. All you would need to do is adjust mounting/structure points and possibly axle and suspension.

This would be a no brainer for Honda engineers to implement. Other mfgs have different engine platforms for single models.

There could be different models.

Base model. 3 cyl
HDX model. 3 cyl w/ turbo
HSi model. 4 cyl

"H" being hybrid.

I like a lot of the ideas many of you have shared.

 

[b1shmu63]

I would have no problem with a Civic motor in the Insight unless of course it decreased the gas mileage. I suspect that someone will try it soon. However, I believe that doubling the power of the IMA would have a greater effect on acceleration. That's the route Prius chose.

Gasoline burning is frightening. Metal burning is awesome. Think old fashioned flash bulb :shock: If and when Lithium becomes the standard battery appropriate precautions will be taken. Meanwhile compared to lead acid, NiMH rules

 

[boogetyboogety]

Let's keep the Insight non-flammable, please...

"9-1-1, please state your emergency"
"I just had an accident, someone hit my 2006 Insight HSi from behind"
"Are you injured?"
"No, everyone's fine"
"What kind of assistance do you need?"
"A few fire trucks would be nice"
"Where is your vehicle?"
"On Highway one. Just look for the very bright glow on the horizon, and be sure and tell the firemen to wear welders' helmets... my car is burning like a magnesium torch. Did you ever see the movie, 'The China Syndrome?'"
"Yes, why?"
"Tell them to hurry..." :shock:

 

[olikea]

Ok, I've been crunching this through my head for a while. Wouldn't it seem like a good idea for Honda to produce the Insight with the powerplant and battery pack from the Civic Hybrid?

It could be a "Special Edition" Insight. The "Sport" model if you will. Think about the possibilities having the 4 cylinder in the insight. More horsepower, better fuel economy, more interior room. Wouldn't it be the ultimate Insight option?

If Honda were to build it, I'd trade my trusty '01 in on a heartbeat.
Has anyone thought of transplanting a Civic Hybrid engine into an Insight?

The more cylinders you have, the worse the fuel economy. Fuel economy is inversely proportional to engine size, and number of cyls.

But Toyota have already come up with the idea of a performance hybrid, they will make a hybrid version of their Lexus RX model, with a V6 engine, but performance of a V8 yet economy of a small 4cyl