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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Weeeeeeeeeeel kinda, Remember we got cars that dictate that we have to make the best of whats available,,,

So anyways --- You can actually make a stock rod a little stronger and also ever so slightly improve performance (and MPG's) just by strategically removing material,,, elimination of stress areas and get the rod flexing as a unit, and also just plain making it lighter which in turn makes it less self destructive and ever so slightly increases efficiency ...

hey --- after all redline on these things means the rods are rapping up and down 100 times a second - that's 100 ups and 100 downs... so yeah remove the lions share of an ounce on all three and that's actually allot more than just throwing a booger out the window and calling it good...

So --- reason for posting is these three little piggies got stuffed into a block today...

New piston'ions, and My modified HP pea shooter connecting rods... total balance within a half a gram and also balanced end-per-end (due to the top part doing all the reciprocation) to a half gram also...

so, here's some before and aft pics --- the stock rods are VERY STRONG, but they are mass produced,,,

the small ends (which are the most critical because they reciprocate) are eccentric and off symmetry side to side,
all's your doing is matching the structure up to the weakest area, this in turn not only reduces weight but actually stress relieves previously burdened sections...

there's before and aft pics throughout but you will get the gist...

This is what happens when a master mechanic owns machinery that cuts metal lol

Overkill? not in comparison to what Honda put out building these things - they went for it too in about every direction imaginable - they even tapered the piston pins to save reciprocating weight,,, absolutely incredible effort...

if your reading this it means your probably fortunate enough to own one,,, we got the best cars in the world bar none...




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Weeeeeeeeeeel kinda, Remember we got cars that dictate that we have to make the best of whats available,,,

So anyways --- You can actually make a stock rod a little stronger and also ever so slightly improve performance (and MPG's) just by strategically removing material,,, elimination of stress areas and get the rod flexing as a unit, and also just plain making it lighter which in turn makes it less self destructive and ever so slightly increases efficiency ...

hey --- after all redline on these things means the rods are rapping up and down 100 times a second - that's 100 ups and 100 downs... so yeah remove the lions share of an ounce on all three and that's actually allot more than just throwing a booger out the window and calling it good...

So --- reason for posting is these three little piggies got stuffed into a block today...

New piston'ions, and My modified HP pea shooter connecting rods... total balance within a half a gram and also balanced end-per-end (due to the top part doing all the reciprocation) to a half gram also...

so, here's some before and aft pics --- the stock rods are VERY STRONG, but they are mass produced,,,

the small ends (which are the most critical because they reciprocate) are eccentric and off symmetry side to side,
all's your doing is matching the structure up to the weakest area, this in turn not only reduces weight but actually stress relieves previously burdened sections...

there's before and aft pics throughout but you will get the gist...

This is what happens when a master mechanic owns machinery that cuts metal lol

Overkill? not in comparison to what Honda put out building these things - they went for it too in about every direction imaginable - they even tapered the piston pins to save reciprocating weight,,, absolutely incredible effort...

if your reading this it means your probably fortunate enough to own one,,, we got the best cars in the world bar none...




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What a great posting. I will be interested in how your vehicle performance is affected. Please let us know. Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What a great posting. I will be interested in how your vehicle performance is affected. Please let us know. Thanks.
Hey thanks --- Like so many things Honda has done - it all adds up and I do not expect to see any measurable mileage gains of "seat of the pants" feel,, but this along with all kinda of other mods will definitely help and in fact already has...

waiting on some valve guides coming next week - but in the meantime will be porting and polishing the head and there I do expect to see some seat of the pants performance gains along with shaving the head about .010 just to up the ante on the compression ratio a smidge without having to burn mid grade....
 

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Hey thanks --- Like so many things Honda has done - it all adds up and I do not expect to see any measurable mileage gains of "seat of the pants" feel,, but this along with all kinda of other mods will definitely help and in fact already has...

waiting on some valve guides coming next week - but in the meantime will be porting and polishing the head and there I do expect to see some seat of the pants performance gains along with shaving the head about .010 just to up the ante on the compression ratio a smidge without having to burn mid grade....
Sounds like you are having fun with the process. Nice to have your great skills.
 

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This is great, someone with mechanical skills massaging the motor. I've wondered what might be available with traditional hot rodding methods. Watching for sure!(y)
 

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Hey thanks --- Like so many things Honda has done - it all adds up and I do not expect to see any measurable mileage gains of "seat of the pants" feel,, but this along with all kinda of other mods will definitely help and in fact already has...

waiting on some valve guides coming next week - but in the meantime will be porting and polishing the head and there I do expect to see some seat of the pants performance gains along with shaving the head about .010 just to up the ante on the compression ratio a smidge without having to burn mid grade....
Based on your assessment, what kind of power do you think the stock rods could handle? I'm currently running 6psi, but I have the ability to go as high as the turbo will realistically handle(about 15ish).

[EDIT]: I would like to mention, nobody as far as I know, has bent a rod/broke a piston due to power limitations. Willies engine went purely due to age, and the only other turbo motor I know that blew up was due to fuel management issues... Hmm...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Sounds like you are having fun with the process. Nice to have your great skills.
It's great fun and it's frustrating --- iv never been up against such a wall when it comes to getting parts,

Probably about .005" of shaving the head to .010" is just to keep up with not only sinking the valves into their seats but grinding the valves themselves and sinking them in even further...
This is for as you already know a car that should have been so well excepted into our society that aftermarket could have been selling battery sticks for $11.27 apiece on rock auto,,,

it's sad, it's sad when this car could get things done for what people are out there doing about 97% of the time, just carrying themselves from point A to point B,,,

yet they are dragging around 5 other empty seats and thousands of extra pounds, so yeah who cares about attention to detail if your already committed to non commitment...

so here we all are - trying to keep out pea shooters running...

BTW i checked out the "aqua" color and now that makes three that id buy for a personal car, very cool color...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Based on your assessment, what kind of power do you think the stock rods could handle? I'm currently running 6psi, but I have the ability to go as high as the turbo will realistically handle(about 15ish).
Balto --- I don't know if you mean stock rods or stock modified rods, but I can tell you that it would not be that much of a difference either way...

I do know to not let the size of these little guys fool you --- they are very stout material, cant touch em with a file and they super loaded my carbide endmill just getting them cleaned up...

there are certain old school formula race engines iv helped build and worked on that are held down by regulation to only modifying stock parts,,,

It is this area that transfers wonderfully to the G-1's But this has nothing to do with pumping in another atmosphere lol your on your own - try not to "pump one through the block" as they say...

I am in this for a little extra "kick" as long as I don't upset my MPG's and in fact prefer both at the same time...

I will also admit, Im a mile high where I live so can use all the little subtle performance gains I can get...

I took a trip last summer and had the pea shooter down at sea level --- OMG what a bottle rocket compared to where im at - because I do live in the mountains toss in a 12% grade climb and yeah you better rap it out some or your going to deplete your battery pack in short order... but no - turbo is not the answer for me...

I got 70mpg's going to florida this last summer... (in fact 70.2) no turbo's going to ever get in the way of that. but to each their own and yes I understand the "need" (if only they made a simple "boost switch") lol...
 

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Balto --- I don't know if you mean stock rods or stock modified rods, but I can tell you that it would not be that much of a difference either way...

I do know to not let the size of these little guys fool you --- they are very stout material, cant touch em with a file and they super loaded my carbide endmill just getting them cleaned up...

there are certain old school formula race engines iv helped build and worked on that are held down by regulation to only modifying stock parts,,,

It is this area that transfers wonderfully to the G-1's But this has nothing to do with pumping in another atmosphere lol your on your own - try not to "pump one through the block" as they say...

I am in this for a little extra "kick" as long as I don't upset my MPG's and in fact prefer both at the same time...

I will also admit, Im a mile high where I live so can use all the little subtle performance gains I can get...

I took a trip last summer and had the pea shooter down at sea level --- OMG what a bottle rocket compared to where im at - because I do live in the mountains toss in a 12% grade climb and yeah you better rap it out some or your going to deplete your battery pack in short order... but no - turbo is not the answer for me...

I got 70mpg's going to florida this last summer... (in fact 70.2) no turbo's going to ever get in the way of that. but to each their own and yes I understand the "need" (if only they made a simple "boost switch") lol...
Yea, I definitely won't be cranking the boost on this car anytime soon, don't want Rodney to pay a visit on a 100k mile engine.

As for the boost switch, you should look up torqamp, that might be more up your alley :).
 

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It was recently brought to my attention that the Insight not only has Honda's standard-practice forged and nitrided crank, but also that the rods and pistons are forged. No wonder we're not seeing any failures under boost.
 

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I was kinda rolling my eyes at first - but then saw the pics, those things look really nice... I'd like to hang one on my wall or something.
 

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It was recently brought to my attention that the Insight not only has Honda's standard-practice forged and nitrided crank, but also that the rods and pistons are forged. No wonder we're not seeing any failures under boost.
I may be coming into an insight soon that is going to get the boost treatment until it pukes a rod, shatters a piston or cracks the block/crank. We will see. I theorize they will take about 120whp before they pop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It was recently brought to my attention that the Insight not only has Honda's standard-practice forged and nitrided crank, but also that the rods and pistons are forged. No wonder we're not seeing any failures under boost.

It's just incredible --- anybody judging these rods by their appearance is not getting the full picture... and I have to admit when i first seen them im guilty of thinking they were kinda "wimpy" for the task...
forged is a given...
But, perhaps the biggest hero's of them all are the connecting rod bolts, a mere 6mm lol

and then to torque them up to 7 ft lbs and then an ADDITIONAL 90 degree's !!!!!!!!!

Iv never felt so sorry for an inanimate object...

So these little 6mm "things" got all this preload --- all this stretch to where you would think they would about snap as is,,, and then your going to heap onto that returning a piston and rings - a pin - a connecting rod ---

all at the rate of 100 times a second --- and what about that misplaced 6,500 RPM downshift? *u know you did it just fess up lol... we all have lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I was kinda rolling my eyes at first - but then saw the pics, those things look really nice... I'd like to hang one on my wall or something.

I bought 3 rods ahead of time --- before i tore into my engine - I was trying to get a "head start" on my rebuild --- so i built up a "special set" for my car even slightly more radical on the small end then the ones in the pic,,,

unfortunately --- i started studying the hard facts of these engines,,, these rods come in different sizes --- one the big end --- they take 4 different size outside diameter bearings just to fit the rods--- they also take 4 different size ID (inside diameter) to fit the crank -------- this is all for just so called standard size rod bearings!!!

crazy, so I will sell the other rods but someone really needs to know what their after as far as the size of the big end that clamps down on the rod bearing itself...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I may be coming into an insight soon that is going to get the boost treatment until it pukes a rod, shatters a piston or cracks the block/crank. We will see. I theorize they will take about 120whp before they pop.
You know what? although in some ways i consider it sacrilege please yes do keep us posted - it's extremely valuable to find out fail points --- these cars are absolute marvels but sacrificing one to help the "collective"
is a valuable cause and if done just for kicks and not recorded would be like crashing an NSX into a wall with no test dummy's ..

Keep us posted Balto --- but I want to see graphic pics of the molten parts... thanks dude...
 

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You know what? although in some ways i consider it sacrilege please yes do keep us posted - it's extremely valuable to find out fail points --- these cars are absolute marvels but sacrificing one to help the "collective"
is a valuable cause and if done just for kicks and not recorded would be like crashing an NSX into a wall with no test dummy's ..

Keep us posted Balto --- but I want to see graphic pics of the molten parts... thanks dude...
No problem! This car has been totaled so it's not a huge loss. It also has fairly high mileage as well... So I'm not going to blow up a sub 200k mile engine. I'm more curious if the engine will go, or the transmission will go first. My bet is on the engine, but who knows. Miata engines take 3x power(roughly) before they pop. I know... My NA Miata was supercharged and made 230whp, when stock for a 1.8 is somewhere in the 75 range...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
No problem! This car has been totaled so it's not a huge loss. It also has fairly high mileage as well... So I'm not going to blow up a sub 200k mile engine. I'm more curious if the engine will go, or the transmission will go first. My bet is on the engine, but who knows. Miata engines take 3x power(roughly) before they pop. I know... My NA Miata was supercharged and made 230whp, when stock for a 1.8 is somewhere in the 75 range...
Its a shame you can't make one of the CVT's your sacrificial lamb lol

If only the rubber bands in the trannies were stronger,,, the engines are actually better for boosting due to being lower compression...

Slap a CVT engine into a manual trans vehicle, that way nobody's going to be traumatized over the whole ordeal when it finally pops a cork...
 

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No problem! This car has been totaled so it's not a huge loss. It also has fairly high mileage as well... So I'm not going to blow up a sub 200k mile engine. I'm more curious if the engine will go, or the transmission will go first. My bet is on the engine, but who knows. Miata engines take 3x power(roughly) before they pop. I know... My NA Miata was supercharged and made 230whp, when stock for a 1.8 is somewhere in the 75 range...
K series also hold about 3x power. The 160hp variants hold about 450hp before they might start thinking about sending a rod through the block, and the 200hp variants hold about 600hp. It's almost always the rods, too.
 

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K series also hold about 3x power. The 160hp variants hold about 450hp before they might start thinking about sending a rod through the block, and the 200hp variants hold about 600hp. It's almost always the rods, too.
Yea that's true. I mean even the single jingle B engines from the same era as the insight will hold 3x the power. Could you imagine the insight making 150whp... Lol. Then again, the engine management is much, much better for all the aforementioned engines, and they are well pioneered for power, the insight not so much. You can't even mess with the ECU directly!

Its a shame you can't make one of the CVT's your sacrificial lamb lol

If only the rubber bands in the trannies were stronger,,, the engines are actually better for boosting due to being lower compression...

Slap a CVT engine into a manual trans vehicle, that way nobody's going to be traumatized over the whole ordeal when it finally pops a cork...
Yea I thought about it, however I only have one spare CVT engine. And it's fairly low miles at around 160k... Don't really wanna do an engine swap just to blow it up... Haha.
 

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I just want to say thank you for your willingness to show what can be done with stock parts and old school hot rodding.
While willy and balto have both contributed leaps and bounds to this community with their turbo cars, learning how to modify, improve, and repair these cars with no available parts is crucial. I've seen the attitudes of "you can't outengineer Honda" and "leave it stock" on this forum with little regard to the reality of these cars becoming extinct if there are no more parts. Finding non-insight parts and radical new methods that can keep these cars alive is more critical than ever.
 
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