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Discussion Starter #1
I yould like to know if Honda will built again the Insight on 2007 or if they stop the model. Thanks a lot. :?:
 

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So would we. :)

Its the most annually repeated question in here. IIRC it was asked for the 07 model year way back in December of 06, before it was sure the 06 would be produced.

The only thing for sure is that its "demise" is almost another year closer. And if you want a new one now is the time :!:

HTH ! :)
 

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What I want to know is, what is the next "hypermiler" vehicle going to be? When I got an Insight in 2001, I figured that by 2006 there would be something better available.. but the Insight's still all there is (mileage only being considered here, not passenger space or other things).
 

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There are some physical limits to what you can do with a two-passenger car with conventional seating positions. The Insight could be made quite a bit lower, for example, if the passengers could be convinced to lie down. :)

Since you have to meet the safety regulations and be able to go 70 MPH (under the current stupid speed limit laws), it's going to be tough to get much better. For example, the current Insight apparently pays no attention to trying to maintain laminar flow over its surface, which if done correctly could gain quite a bit of drag reduction. That would probably require a rear-engine car, though, because of the cooling system openings in the front.

So the ideal car would have two passengers lying down with a rear engine. This is a pretty radical departure from current automotive design. It would have to be called the Outtasight. :D
 

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I did read an article recently on a website that discussed the Fit hybrid. Basically, it oficially "unoficially" stated that the Fit hybrid will be available by mid 2007 and that they plan to continue building the Insight due to loyal following and the fact that it is such a low production model. Time will tell....
 

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Well, yes....Honda has discontinued production of the Insight in the spring for several years now. They have also started production in the winter. It doesn't make sense to produce them all year. :D

Why should Honda stop making the Insight?

Its sales are up.

It has appeared in 5 movies: Mean Girls, The Day After Tomorrow, The One, The Girl Next Door, Be Cool.

It wins awards every year for its engine.

It is still unchallenged for milleage.

It is a symbol worldwide as an eco car.

Honda neither changes nor advertises it, yet people keep buying it.

We love it! :D ......................

OK, so it doesn't make money directly, but judging by the interest I've had shown by people, I suspect it is very cost effective advertising for Honda. ;)
 

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> Why should Honda stop making the Insight?

I love the Insight, although I don't own one yet, I'm sure I will, but just for fun, here is the other side of the coin.

> Its sales are up.

Yes, from dismally, ridiculously tiny sales before, to still dismally ridiculously tiny sales now.

> It has appeared in 5 movies: Mean Girls, The Day After Tomorrow, The One, The Girl Next Door, Be Cool.

The Delorean appeared in 3 very big movies, a lot of good it did.

> It wins awards every year for its engine.

And yet if I buy the manual, the engine is too dirty for me to be able to get my tax credit. :x

> It is still unchallenged for milleage.

Which still, statistically speaking, almost no one cares about.

> It is a symbol worldwide as an eco car.

It is a symbol worldwide as an eco car, which is why no one wants to buy a real eco car (2 seater, no luggage, noisy ride, poor suspension, poor acceleration--these are not my views, but these are the views of the automotive press, and also the views of the public generally)

> Honda neither changes nor advertises it, yet people keep buying it.

Yes, 80 to 100 people a month buy one, a meaningless tiny slice of the market. How depressing. And yes, Honda doesn't change it, how very depressing.

> We love it! :D

True enough
 

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>> Its sales are up.

>Yes, from dismally, ridiculously tiny sales before, to still dismally ridiculously tiny sales now.

The sales figures are low because the production numbers are low. The production numbers are low by design. Hey, they can only build them by hand so quickly.

>> It has appeared in 5 movies: Mean Girls, The Day After Tomorrow, The One, The Girl Next Door, Be Cool.

>The Delorean appeared in 3 very big movies, a lot of good it did.

The Delorean died because the company was poorly managed.

>> It wins awards every year for its engine.

>And yet if I buy the manual, the engine is too dirty for me to be able to get my tax credit. :x

Says a government run by big oil tycoons that gives much bigger tax credits for monster trucks.

>> It is still unchallenged for milleage.

>Which still, statistically speaking, almost no one cares about.

Isn't there still a waiting list for both the Prius II and HCH II? And the Insight's resale value continues to climb.

>> It is a symbol worldwide as an eco car.

>It is a symbol worldwide as an eco car, which is why no one wants to buy a real eco car (2 seater, no luggage, noisy ride, poor suspension, poor acceleration--these are not my views, but these are the views of the automotive press, and also the views of the public generally)

The public (as a whole) tends to follow what the TV tells them. The TV tells them exactly what corporate interests want it to tell them. Remember that Saturn commercial a while back? Deliberate FUD spewing. (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt)

>> Honda neither changes nor advertises it, yet people keep buying it.

>Yes, 80 to 100 people a month buy one, a meaningless tiny slice of the market. How depressing. And yes, Honda doesn't change it, how very depressing.

See above about intentionally low production figures for the Insight, and waiting lists for high production hybrids.

> We love it! :D

The Insight, and the competition between Honda and Toyota, is pretty much the reason why there are so many hybrids on the road now, and the number is increasing dramatically. But the world is not perfect.
 

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> The sales figures are low because the production numbers are low. The production numbers are low by design. Hey, they can only build them by hand so quickly.

Production numbers are low because they know that sales are low. Don't kid yourself that Honda's manufacturing limitations are why they aren't on any lots. It may be by design that the production numbers are low, but it's not due to manufacturing limitations, it's because they chose to only put out that many. If they put out many more, they would just sit on the lot.

> The Delorean died because the company was poorly managed.

And also possibly because there was almost no demand for the car?? Just like another car I know!

> Says a government run by big oil tycoons that gives much bigger tax credits for monster trucks.

You deny the engine's emissions? You can argue with the tax credit law all you want (and I'd agree with you, it's stupid), but the engine isn't SULEV. If it were, we'd get the credit no matter how much big oil is running the show.

> Isn't there still a waiting list for both the Prius II and HCH II?

Probably no bigger than that for the Hummer 3. But I was talking about the Insight.

> And the Insight's resale value continues to climb.

I haven't seen that. I see resale prices about the same as for other used cars. Maybe they don't drop as fast as other cars, but I see no climbing!?! I saw a nice '03 for 10k.

> The public (as a whole) tends to follow what the TV tells them. The TV tells them exactly what corporate interests want it to tell them. Remember that Saturn commercial a while back? Deliberate FUD spewing. (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt)

I wasn't arguing why the public is stupid, just that it is. We agree!

> See above about intentionally low production figures for the Insight, and waiting lists for high production hybrids.

I thought we were talking about the Insight? Where are the waiting lists for that? Sure we read about fellow Insight freaks on this forum who are bugging their local dealer for one, but again, we are a depressingly tiny slice of a rather small pie (the pie being hybrid buyers overall).

So it seems that your opinion is that if only Honda would make more Insights, that sales would dramatically climb? Sorry, I don't buy it. On those years where they made a lot more of them, they just sat on lots is my recollection. Was it 2002 when they made more? That's the year I was able to test drive one that was just sitting there. No waiting list on that car, for sure.

It's a great car, but only we tiny few think so. I am not sure how you can possibly deny that.
 

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You're forgetting the main reason sales are low: it cost Honda more to build an Insight than the MSRP. Why would they want to build more than it takes to get their bragging rights?

As for improving the mpg, there are a lot of things that could be done. For instance, turbocharge the engine, add exhaust regeneration and MIMA-like control options. Give it a bigger battery pack, and make it grid-chargable.

For air resistance, the CD could be improved a bit - other concept designs have lower ones - and the car itself could be made lower and narrower (and a bit longer) by adopting true sports car style seating.
 

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james said:
You're forgetting the main reason sales are low: it cost Honda more to build an Insight than the MSRP.
I'm not forgetting it, I'm just not buying it.

First, I have never seen any documentation that has said that the car costs more to make than its MSRP (although everyone seems to think so...I prefer at least a little facts here and there).

Second, I do not see a significant number of people trying to buy the Insight who are unable to do so.
 

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ethicalpaul said:
Production numbers are low because they know that sales are low. Don't kid yourself that Honda's manufacturing limitations are why they aren't on any lots. It may be by design that the production numbers are low, but it's not due to manufacturing limitations, it's because they chose to only put out that many. If they put out many more, they would just sit on the lot.
Honda certainly can't hand build as many Insights as they can roll HCH's off a robot assembly line. They are basically building enough to cover orders. Orders are few because relatively few people (including dealership employees) know the car exists. Pretty much the only advertisement is by word of mouth.


ethicalpaul said:
You deny the engine's emissions? You can argue with the tax credit law all you want (and I'd agree with you, it's stupid), but the engine isn't SULEV. If it were, we'd get the credit no matter how much big oil is running the show.
No. But I blame the government for not including the most fuel efficient gas-powered car simply because it is slightly more dirty than SULEV. They could've set the limit at ULEV.

> Isn't there still a waiting list for both the Prius II and HCH II?

ethicalpaul said:
Probably no bigger than that for the Hummer 3. But I was talking about the Insight.
No, demand for monster trucks is dropping, and has been for a while now. If there's a waiting list for the H3 (and I doubt it, but don't have facts) it is because it is brand new- a novelty item.

> And the Insight's resale value continues to climb.

ethicalpaul said:
I haven't seen that. I see resale prices about the same as for other used cars. Maybe they don't drop as fast as other cars, but I see no climbing!?! I saw a nice '03 for 10k.
Insights on eBay have been getting better prices lately than they used to. I'm sure this phenomenon is not exclusive to eBay.

> See above about intentionally low production figures for the Insight, and waiting lists for high production hybrids.

ethicalpaul said:
I thought we were talking about the Insight? Where are the waiting lists for that? Sure we read about fellow Insight freaks on this forum who are bugging their local dealer for one, but again, we are a depressingly tiny slice of a rather small pie (the pie being hybrid buyers overall).
Already answered. Low production ultimately due to no advertisement and a manufacturing cost that is higher than the sale price.

ethicalpaul said:
So it seems that your opinion is that if only Honda would make more Insights, that sales would dramatically climb? Sorry, I don't buy it. On those years where they made a lot more of them, they just sat on lots is my recollection. Was it 2002 when they made more? That's the year I was able to test drive one that was just sitting there. No waiting list on that car, for sure.
No, that is not my position. And what year did they make "a lot more of them?" "A lot" means different things to different people, I guess.

ethicalpaul said:
It's a great car, but only we tiny few think so. I am not sure how you can possibly deny that.
I'm not denying that. But a lot of the reason is lack of advertisement. You have to know something exists before you can develop an opinion of it. Surely you can't deny that interest and demand for more efficient vehicles is on the rise.
 

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You keep bringing other cars into this discussion, when all I was talking about was...the subject of this forum...the INSIGHT. I was simply pointing out some reasons why the Insight isn't desired by the public. You seem to think there is a conspiracy out there to brainwash people into not liking the Insight...or something? I'm not sure.

Here's a story relating to hybrid models less undesirable than the Insight is. If Honda can't move Accord and Civic Hybrids, the insight doesn't stand a chance. And again, let me say, this is not due to engineering, but due to the public being stupid.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti ... /604140368
 

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Actually Paul I don't think the public is stupid. By definition the average person is of average intelligence, unless of course you were relating us to a higher power. ;)

The article you reference is not surprisingly from Detroit. Reading with discernment you discover that negative remarks are coming from Nissan who definately seem to have a burr in their shorts. :D

The article does say:

1. Bob Carter, general manager of Toyota's Lexus luxury division, said.... "There is no decline in hybrid demand."

2. Hybrid sales are up 37% so far this year, to 48,686 vehicles, as new models hit the market.


I think it is noteworthy that one third of all new Toyota Highlanders being sold are hybrid. 8)

Pollution regulations do not account for CO2, which is implicated in global warming, and and do not consider any other factors relating to excessive consumption of fossil fuels. They are intended to keep the skies of L.A. sunny, and that they do. Otherwise Insight 5 speed would rate highest for "save the planet".

Do I think that Honda know what they are doing? Honda are the fastest growing company in Japan since WWII, are the largest engine producer in the world, and have the best fuel efficiency across their line of the major car companies. I rate them as having above average intelligence, and I believe they are rightly proud of the Insight. ;) The thrust of my brief note was that Insights are effective and relatively low cost P.R. for Honda, and that not everything can be easily discearned with a spread sheet. (This was in response to the common but inscrutable question of the Insights longevity.)

And,ah yes, the movies were rather lame. :lol:
 
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