[figgy]

I'll post some photos shortly. Again, I am guilty of letting my eagerness get ahead of me, and I've done it without documenting the entire process. I have the end results, however, and some failures. I'll post all this stuff. I may do one more iteration to get it to 99.999% perfection vs. 99.9% perfection...

Here is the text 'notices' version:

After taking a quick trip to Japan to study with a Samurai sword master at the Fuji institute, I have now perfected the art of mashing flue vent pipe into balloon animal shapes. I used this new skill to create the first generation of warm air intake mod piping that wraps around the passenger side of the engine to the cat converter area. I used a 3 ft section of 3" 'flexible' flue vent pipe from Home Depot (I think about ten bucks). I made a wood template for the tricky sizing part as it goes by the AC coolant piping. I wanted to avoid bending anything, but to keep always over and above the cross sectional area of a 2" diameter round pipe so as not to restrict air flow because of the additional distance.

It is a 'drop-in' mod, no ties or fasteners required. You can remove it easily just by lifting off the engine cover and lifting it up out, or you could leave the cover off entirely as some have already done to save the 3/4 lbs of the plastic :wink:.

You can leave it installed and change on the fly to some cooler air by opening the junction to the original port area for the air intake. That way you can adjust daily, or by the trip, if you want.

I haven't made it so you can change from hot to cool air from inside the cockpit, but it won't be a stretch and I may do this soon. Some folks were toying with rigging it to the throttle, which is a great idea but a tad more complex.

I'll post again when I put up the details at the web site.

 

[Holicow]

or you could leave the cover off entirely as some have already done to save the 3/4 lbs of the plastic :wink:.
...

I just try to remember to make a "pit stop" before every trip, if ya know what I mean.... Save about the same amount


Can't wait to see your pics. I used the same vent stuff, I think. Very thin, corrugated extendable duct? I unhitched the original intake duct, left it in place, and hooked this up. Ran it around the driver side, under the battery. It's not pretty.

 

[Guest]

Hi Figgy:

___I have some ideas of my own but when you perfect yours and when does it go in mass production, can we purchase it from you

___I look forward to seeing your pics very soon.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:1ra5y9iu][email protected][/email:1ra5y9iu]

 

[flunkysama]

Every thought about grafting a neck from the air cleaner of a carburated engine? They usually have a thermostat controlling the temp of the incoming air. Then you won't have to change things every season.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

<begin Japanese/American accent> (ment only as a "Hollywood" enhancement)

Ahhh Master Fuji Figgy.

May I humbly suggest that you have chosen the wrong path. The way of the Samurai is harsh and full of unhappiness. Reflect upon the way of the water reed. Observe how it easily bends, yet is strong and resilient. You must abandon your forceful ways. A 2" heat riser hose, flexible, extendible and fits the existing intake stump is the way of the water reed.

<end accent> <g>

Readily available at most non chain auto parts stores. Its used as the tube from the manifold to the a carburetor hot air inlet and is necessary to prevent carburetor icing. Its also used in some older models for defroster duct. Compressed accordion aluminum, sometimes with a paper "skin" that looks dark gray. Comes in various extendable lengths. You will need 2- 36" (extendable to) sections, a 2" repair splice of exhaust pipe, 2- hose clamps and a couple of zip ties.

If anyone wants the pics PM me with the email address. Preferably with the thought in mind of posting them somewhere to be available for the group. First come first served.

HTH!

 

[Corey872]

Ahhh Master Fuji Figgy. ...

LOL!!

I have been following this and similar threads closely...I'm gathering that there is truely some efficiency to be gained with picking up hot air from around the catalytic converter. I am curious if anyone has run this mod during the summer though? Or is it just a winter-only type set-up.

During the summer, I could easily see 100F + ambient temps, I suspect the cat could reach 1000F + all snuggled back behind the engine. Even if the set-up was minimally efficient, I could see the intake air hitting 200-300F pretty easily. Anyone measured the intake air delta T with the mod on and off?

Also curious if anyone has considered (or is) using a second heater core for this "intercooler in reverse" scheme? It would take more work to plumb in the coolant and air ducts, but it would be really easy to control via a standard heater control valve. It seems like it may offer more moderated temps...you could only ever get the air "close to" the coolant temp which may top out in the 200-220 range. I would have to look up some numbers to determine if there would be more heat capacity in the 200F water or hotter air at the cat.

 

[Guest]

Hi Figgy:

___I was thinking more along the lines of a wrap around metal plate with an inlet filled with cross bracing to absorb as much heat off that cat shield as might be available. I have had times when lean burn just disappears only to find out a short while later that the pre-heater hose has moved ~ ½” away from the heat shield in the dead of winter when it is well below freezing. I have zip-tied the hose in such a manner that that shouldn’t happen again but I just feel there is a lot of heat being given away because of a simple hose drawing air from around the heat shield when in fact, it could be attached to a wrap around metal shaped inlet attached to the heat shield directly to really use that waste heat to our cold weather driving advantage. Something with a grilled opening on one end towards the top and with the 2” male fitting for the pre-heater hose to attach to using a screw clamp.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:2yoxkb4k][email protected][/email:2yoxkb4k]

 

[Insightful Trekker]

To Corey82:

I've run mine all last summer without incident. Your estimate of the external temp of the CAT is quite a bit high (though internally not too far off). My IAT when I checked never exceeded 120F. You will see the biggest MPG improvement in cool weather. Too cold and the effect will be insufficient. And only if you drive in the high MPG "style". The warm air mod simply "widens" the lean burn window. If you drive outside this envelope you won't see the potential.

The inter cooler is an interesting idea. To do it right would take some real engineering effort. Perhaps the biggest consideration would be in not restricting the intake air flow too much.

And thanks for the LOL acknowledgment <taking a bow>

HTH!

TO xcel:

I've got a piece of the factory sheet metal that is the hot air connection at the exhaust manifold from an 86 F150 pickup. It's going to be a chore in fitting it around the CAT to provide a better preheat connection. In my location I don't think I would get the same benefit as somewhere colder. With some diligence in forming and a couple of large band clamps it would be do-able.

Just a suggestion.

Honorable mention to flunkysama.

Yup such a connection could auto control the heat, but it will also require the little and delicate bi-metallic air valve that allows the vacuum hose to vent the hot air door vacuum motor. Its location must be in the intake stream. A bit of a chore. And finding a or tweaking this valve to the right temp will be the greatest task. Until you get into the desert SW climate too high an intake temp will be difficult to obtain.


HTH!

 

[figgy]

Beware of sucking too much heat from the cat, and having it not function properly because it is too cold!

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Good point. If we get too efficient in this approach expect a P0420 (CAT below efficency code).

Before anyone asks the reverse is not true. If you have a P0420 you cannot extend or recover CAT life by better insulation.

HTH!

 

[Guest]

Hi Figgy:

___I am speaking of pulling the waste heat from the CAT shield, not the CAT itself. There is a lot of heat off that shield just going to waste and the more captured, the better our mileage is in minus 10 to 30 degree F ambient temperatures. I am almost positive a full blown heat capture enclosure and an insulated pre-heater hose will help a tremendous amount in this regard. I am also convinced that if someone finds a way to seal off the engine compartment from the elements off the bottom of our Insights, that would help immensely as well. Replacing the small aero panels with specifically sized larger panel(s) is about all it would take. I unfortunately am not a fabricator but receiving lean burn in minus 10 degree F temps however pathetic it is tells me that warm air mod(s) work and can only work better with a bit of good ole American ingenuity applied. Of course I am thinking of the fall and winter approaching, not what we just came through unfortunately

___With that, I ordered my Insight Engine Block heater last Friday and will definitely install it before it gets cold next fall …

___Now about that lower engine bay enclosure cover, do you have any sources

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:2tfb2643][email protected][/email:2tfb2643]

 

[b1shmu63]

Corey the use of coolant and a rad would be nice and consistent. The problem is that in really cold weather the engine needs more heat than it generates to operate efficiently. The beauty of using the Cat heat is that it will not cool down the engine. Ultimately if one could extract heat from the exhaust system after the cat then you would not have to worry about cooling the cat too much. A section of double walled SS pipe in the right size would achieve this. Definately a custom job though.

 

[Rick Reece]

I get my healight wiring recall tomorrow [mod edit,<snip>.]. In the two weeks I have had it off (out of the last 2.5 years) I have noticed a difference in being able to maintain lean burn. I have a temp probe in my duct and monitor the temp. On the highway its usually about 20 above ambient temp. In the city you will be higher due to less cooling from air flow around the engine. Fortuantely our insights are in autostop at lights etc when their is no air flow. I have never tried it on a high 90 day in the city with the A/C on but I would watch the temp if I drove under these conditions. Have fun, Rick

 

[Insightful Trekker]

TO: Figgy and Rick Reece

In regard to your choice of using a large hose for your hot air mods;

Agreed its better in that the intake tuning that will effect the ICE torque and horsepower curves will be closer to its designed values. However, I found that the difficulty in struggling with larger hoses to be much greater. Specifically, its a matter of fit and durability. In my case and (as always YMMV) the change in intake resonant frequency has had no detectable impact on MPG. Such a modification will simply _slightly_ shift the curves. So the impact will be minimal and highly dependent on what part of said curves you spend the most time on.

I never "do" pic's in cyberspace so my knowledge in how to is extremely lacking. If someone would point me in the right direction, especially as to a "free" hosting site I'd be glad to post my "how to" for comparison.

They would be 640x480x256 .jpg's under 80kb ea. maybe 6-7 in total.

And I'd look forward to seeing your mods too!

HTH!

 

[cakley]

I never "do" pic's in cyberspace so my knowledge in how to is extremely lacking. If someone would point me in the right direction, especially as to a "free" hosting site I'd be glad to post my "how to" for comparison.

They would be 640x480x256 .jpg's under 80kb ea. maybe 6-7 in total.


HTH!

Try http://www.cardomain.com free and easy to use

 

[Yves M.]

Hi John,

I use the http://www.100freemb.com free web site. There is a limit of 100 mb total but each file can not be big (few hundred k if I remember). People can access files through an html page (not directly).

So you create a simple html page and put links to the images. I put the html pages in the root directory but put the images into separate folders not to be confused while doing maintenace (add/remove)

Here are a few of my simple pages (last is not Insight related):
1) http://www.md92raid.100freemb.com/insightlogo.html
2) http://www.md92raid.100freemb.com/insightcoldstart.html
3) http://www.md92raid.100freemb.com/index.html

They allow a total of 600 Mb transfer.

 

[figgy]

ITrekker - I can post them at my site for you, if you want.

I'll be away for a few days, back next week.

figgy

 

[Insightful Trekker]

FWIW here is my hot air intake mod:

http://www.cardomain.com/id/itrekker

I look forward to seeing yours too.

HTH!

 

[Guest]

Hi Insightful Trekker:

___That is the best Warm air intake setup I have seen so far … Can you post a pic of where and how the Hot air connection from the Ford connects to the exhaust manifold? Your setup is close to what I was trying to describe above but more off the shelf OEM like. In other words, inexpensive and it looks like it does a great job.

___Have you looked at AIT’s with and without in 30 degree temps while on the road at 55 or so mph?

___Thanks in advance

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:3mt1r3xm][email protected][/email:3mt1r3xm]

 

[Insightful Trekker]

The pic of the FORD part isn't installed, yet. Its rather dark and tight behind the Insight's engine in between the CAT and the back of the block so a pic is going to be difficult. If you'll look back there yourself you'll see that the CAT is only heat shielded in the rear. This would allow the FORD piece to be band clamped around the front in between the CAT and the block. Whew, after typing this description maybe it would have been easier to take a pic. <g>

And there is some added difficulty with the factory block heater installed. It will make things a bit tighter, but still appears do-able. I'll probably wait 'til fall for this step.

I haven't bothered watching IAT's often since last summer. But I can say that since ideal MPG warm weather has returned my new best one way commute reached 97.5 MPG yesterday! Previously my best one way was around 93. And the benefit should be greater in the cold weather you experience in the Chicagoland area. But given the much greater efficiency with this setup you probably should watch IAT's in hot weather. And it would be easy enough to slip the hose off and let it draw the less heated air nearby.

HTH!