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Discussion Starter #1
If they are going to make hybrids of other models that need more power, why don't they up the IMAS to give them ALL 60mpg??? I don't get it!
 

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How come the IMAS do'esnt reflect the vehicle sise ?

There are factors other than the IMA in the design of the Insight that help produce the high mpg figures.
Increasing the IMA output would need a bigger battery pack which would add weight and probably negate any advantage.
The bottom line is overall weight is the enemy and any attempt to make a larger hybrid will not achieve the results the insight produce's even if you juggle the hybrid specs around.

DGate
 

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Discussion Starter #3
more weight

all they'd need is a bigger electric motor to go with the larger battery. It's common sense.
 

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Re: more weight

The physics of energy consumption commonly go against common sense. :)

The technical issues in this regard have been discussed ad nausium in here so I won't go there. If you've really got to know use the forum search feature. The library would also be a great resource.

HTH! :)
 

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Re: more weight

dfiore said:
all they'd need is a bigger electric motor to go with the larger battery. It's common sense.
The Insight is a system. The car is designed to be as efficient as possible. For example, the low drag, lightweight construction, low friction everything, etc.

Compared to the Insight, the Accord Hybrid (for example) is a brick. Probably twice the weight, and nowhere near the attention to detail regarding efficiency as the Insight.

Same with the Civic. It's just a regular Civic with a hybrid drivetrain.
 

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"...all they'd need is a bigger electric motor to go with the larger battery. It's common sense."

Sorry, but it doesn't work like that. Think about it a bit. The hybrid system isn't magic: all it does is capture some of the energy that's otherwise wasted in braking. That's going to be pretty much a fixed percentage of fuel consumed, regardless of the car size.

Take an example. I'm just pulling numbers out of the air here, but say an Insight without the IMA system might average 50 mpg. Add the IMA, and you get 70 mpg, or 40% improvement. So take a larger, heavier car that gets 20 mpg, add an IMA system, and you could reasonably expect about 28 mpg.
 

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And if we took off the IMA system entirely (and thus reduced the weight) and drove our 1-litre Insights as conservatively as our hypermilers, would we not obtain even better mpg at the sacrifice of the acceleration we now have? :roll:
 

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In tests where the IMA battery was purposely drained the Insight only lost about 3 seconds from zero to 60, but driving the Insight in the city would be terrible due to the tall first gear. :wink:
 

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JoeMultihuller said:
And if we took off the IMA system entirely (and thus reduced the weight) and drove our 1-litre Insights as conservatively as our hypermilers, would we not obtain even better mpg at the sacrifice of the acceleration we now have? :roll:
If you're mostly driving on the highway, yes. In the city, it would be lower since the ICE would spend much more of it's time in the "inefficiency zone".
 

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Honda had to design a car that gets great gas mileage and low emissions
but still please most of the public that does not want a car that is very
slow from 0-60 ... The IMA system is a great compromise between the
performance that some people want and the mileage that other people
want ... Like others have said, you will miss the batteries in city areas
and towns with many redlights. If you live in a flat area with no stop and
go and you were able to take out the battery pack and components and
BCM, MCM, etc without driveability problems, then I think that you would
get better fuel economy. Remember the 1984 1.3 liter Honda CRX HF?..

JoeCVT - Just your average CVT owner
 

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Re: more weight

dfiore said:
all they'd need is a bigger electric motor to go with the larger battery. It's common sense.
I drive 100% highway. Almost No Battery. Your proposal would do absolutely nothing to increase my MPG.


troy
 

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I'd like to see these two Insight features standard on every vehicle offered for sale... can you imagine what a savings any owner could achieve with nothing more?

1. Idle-stop
2. Real-time fuel-consumption gauge
 

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Amen! Problem is, if you have idle stop you need 90 percent of the hybrid system.

I wish it were not so but I fear that we are in a more serious position than most realise. Hybrids are only part of the solution. Honda seems to imply that the most cost effective way to decrease consumption is to increase engine efficiency and lower the coeficient of drag. We need to use every available option and do it fast.

High prices for fuel in the near term future will rule more effectively than government regulation. I wish it were not so. We need to start stretching our fuel with sunlight. 8)
 

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SteveO, I second the motion - amazing how the feedback from our Insight fuel consumption gauge set has already modified my lifelong leadfoot driving habits! Thank you Honda!

Our three tripmeters are fun to play with, and it would be interesting to also show an average MPH in each of the trip displays.

I was already thinking how great if my other cars were to have this display group. Because of all the different car configurations out there, this would be a complex and thus costly add-on accessory (which would unfortunately probably not sell to the American public until gas gets to $20 a gallon...)

Forget about the government mandating something even as simple as this display... it's beauty is unrecognized until it's actually used (besides, some human-factors expert will say it's too distracting...).

Regarding idle-stop, I now find myself turning off the engine at long stoplights in my other cars...

I would love to be able to be able to run in EV mode for short distances (even if only for 1/4 mile). Whoops, sorry, what was the topic... :?
 

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b1shmu63 said:
Amen! Problem is, if you have idle stop you need 90 percent of the hybrid system.
No not really. A few European cars have idle-stop to improve City MPG. They simply use the standard 12 Volt Starter, but slightly larger. It's not a hybrid.



MPG GAUGES: I remember when they were commonplace in early 80's cars - a result of the oil crisis. Too bad they were phased-out.

troy
 

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By the way, some of you may have noticed that the new Acural RL has an Insight-ish fuel gauge. It's built into the center console where the nav system is located, and I tried it out... fantastic! I wish I could have taken the car home to run through a tank and see by how much I could beat the EPA mileage estimates! Interesting, though, they don't list the gauge anywhere as a feature... I had to find it on my own.
 
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Hi Steveo:

___All Honda’s and Acura’s w/ NAVI’s have the Instantaneous FCD’s built in. They don’t have the multiple trips but they all have interesting average speed data points in addition to the Instantaneous and average FE over a segment/tank depending on if you let the NAVI reset itself after fill or if you do it manually. There are actually 2 different FCD screens with the primary having the Instantaneous …

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showt ... eadid=1783

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showt ... eadid=1162

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:1lzmsxnw][email protected][/email:1lzmsxnw]
 
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