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Discussion Starter #4
I did the math of the gen1 insight vs a nissan leaf at my electric rates the insight wins
 

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I did the math of the gen1 insight vs a nissan leaf at my electric rates the insight wins
That’s why folks have solar,

One of my EVs uses 144wt/hr per mile off the wall, I wonder if it would still be more expensive in your area.

What are your per kw/hr rates?
 

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SeekingAlpha is not that reliable a source, even outside of the April 1st publishing window.
I don't think they were joking, but they might have chosen April Fools day to escape liability?
 

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I don't really give a crap about per mile fuel costs. According to the IRS, it costs $0.545/mile.

"The standard mileage rate for business is based on an annual study of the fixed and variable costs of operating an automobile."

Acquisition and maintenence costs tend to be significantly more than fuel cost for the more fuel efficient vehicles.

EV buyers are driven by technology and environmental interests far more then economical - especially when EV acquisition costs are higher. Those that are "frugal" are typically driven off by the high acquisition cost.

The article is a bit douchey, and heavily cherry-picked. The analysis of it illustrates that there are many factors involved.

Few people go to the effort to do an in-depth analysis of their vehicle purchase decision. Most just buy what they want based on features, budget, etc. They don't think of total cost of ownership (TCO).

Until we start talking about TCO over a defined time and mileage, these arguments are just mental masturbation about trivialities that only give a small part of the picture.
 

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I did the math of the gen1 insight vs a nissan leaf at my electric rates the insight wins
https://www.epelectric.com/files/html/Rates_and_Regulatory/Docket_46831_Stamped_Tariffs/03_-_Rate_01_Residential_Service_Rate.pdf

So doing a little math for you using the fact
my Insight is around 80mpg
My antique EV is around 144wthr/mi
And my volt uses
12kwhr to go 50+ miles lets do a comparison

Insight
$2.599 / 80 + 0.005 (oil & filter per mile) = $0.0374 per mile

Antique EV
10.39 (your per kwhr cost) * (144wthr/1000) = $0.015 per mile

Volt
12kwhr / 50 * $0.1039 = $0.025

There is a lot more maintenance I don’t account for on the Insight that isn’t required on the volt so I’m not sure how you come up with it being cheaper.

From a TOC standpoint you can buy a Volt for $5400 on up and obviously you could buy a $5400 Insight if you wanted to.

Let’s see your numbers?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So you electric car is almost 3 times more effic8ent than a leaf? What is it an electric scooter?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
A leaf is 300wh a mile

300 *0.0012 a watt hour where i live its 3.67 cents a mile at 58mpg for insight thats 2.13 a gallon to break even

Where i live gas just went up to 2.39 a gallon but its been in the 2.00 range for a long time

Also a used leaf is 5k plus 600 for the home charger

My insight is 1500 plus 300 for grid charger

And no worries about running out of charge or taking long trips

If i hypermile i can easily get 65 so then 2.38 is the break even a gallon price
 

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Leaf is 300kwh/100miles per epa also from what i read when i was researching the used ones were more like 300kwh/80miles
You mean 30kwhr/100 miles ?

Also that number assumes a lot of speed and climate control use
So it may be accurate for you or it may not.

My Volt is rated similarly to a leaf but I get high 60’s for EV range all summer despite an EPA rating of 37 miles.

I also don’t pay for electricity most of the time .

My antique EV weighs 1200lbs and doesn’t drive too fast, seats 2 but not a scooter it’s a fully enclosed 4 wheel car.
I’m guessing it’s rather somber driving characteristics, low speed, light weight make it efficient despite it being quite old.

My fathers Miles zx40 also pegged along at 144wt/hr a mile at 25mph so it’s not tough to achieve that number in a small slow EV.
 

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Sorry volt is not 12kwh/50 miles more like 15.5kwh/50
The EPA rating has very little to do with the amount of energy a particular car uses.

My metrics are based on my actual measured kwhrs out of the outlet

The same way you can measure a cars gas mpgs
I can use a simple meter to measure my electric ones.

The only time my Volt is anywhere near the EPA number is in the middle of winter.

I’ve found that electric cars are MUCH EASIER to hypermile than any ICE car I’ve ever owned,

Speed and coasting is all it takes

My summer record is 73 EV miles on a single charge
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Also if you use public charging at least where i live they charge a ton of money if my work would charge for free then i would buy a Bolt
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Anyways bottom line is where you live makes a big difference of course you can always install solar and a battery wall but that would take a long time to pay off
 

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I don't really give a crap about per mile fuel costs. According to the IRS, it costs $0.545/mile.

"The standard mileage rate for business is based on an annual study of the fixed and variable costs of operating an automobile."

Acquisition and maintenence costs tend to be significantly more than fuel cost for the more fuel efficient vehicles.

EV buyers are driven by technology and environmental interests far more then economical - especially when EV acquisition costs are higher. Those that are "frugal" are typically driven off by the high acquisition cost.

The article is a bit douchey, and heavily cherry-picked. The analysis of it illustrates that there are many factors involved.

Few people go to the effort to do an in-depth analysis of their vehicle purchase decision. Most just buy what they want based on features, budget, etc. They don't think of total cost of ownership (TCO).

Until we start talking about TCO over a defined time and mileage, these arguments are just mental masturbation about trivialities that only give a small part of the picture.


TCO, ftw


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