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I read an article the other day about how the new high MPG gassers are taking sales away from Hybrids. Now I realize that not everybody will tolerate the quirky driving experience that is the Insight but as the owner of an Insight and a 2010 Fusion (non Hybrid) I can tell you that there is a 20 mpg different in the average mpg between the cars.

I have personally gotten 35mpg out of the Fusion on a long trip but can barely get it above 29 mpg for average driving while the Insight is consistently above 50.

I would think that most of the 40 mpg+ new cars are lucky to average 35 overall. I might just be me but when I drive the Insight I now unconsciously drive more conservatively as far as accel and decel and cruise speed. And I dread the drop in average MPG that occurs whenever my wife drives the Insight instead of me - it always returns with at least 2 mpg shaved off average and that's only if the tank is mostly empty otherwise its 4 mpg :eek:
 

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We got our Insight not long after some other family members got a KIA-something (I forget what it is, I've even rode around in it but was wishing I had the Insight's interior the whole time from the seat fabric to the dashboard).

They noted it got mid 30's or something. Which isn't bad. But that's a highway figure, not putting around town. ;) Being as they live in BFE like I do, it will mostly see the Interstate or 55 MPH state routes whenever they want to go somewhere. So, in a way, it does make real sense.

But people who live around large metropolitan regions should really look beyond only the highway figure, IMO.

What's really notable is that cars in the 80's were getting 30's MPG. Safety features, this and that add up to the overall weight and improved engine technology has to be made to make up for the weight-gain. My old Accords in the 80's ALWAYS got about 34 MPG. Yup, even the carb'd ones.
 

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Let's not forget about the 80s and 90s CRX and Civics that could easily get 50MPG on the highway.

But as Zwolfe says, it's not a fair comparison due to the increased safety standards and added creature comforts that are demanded in todays markets.

And I just realized this is in the 2nd generation forum, lol.
 

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My uncle had a 1991 Honda CRX HF and he would talk about getting 60mpg tanks occassionally and regularly getting tanks in the 50s. The Metro XFI could get around 50 or so if driven carefully. My 95 Prizm got me low 40s with mild hypermiling but that was all before in-dash MPG gauges and Scan Guages could be used. A little monitoring would likely go a long way with older vehicles.

Sad to see that 40mpg highway is considered great when 2 decades ago it was fairly standard in a small 4 door car and nobody was really paying attention to gas mileage when gas was still around a dollar a gallon.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
My uncle had a 1991 Honda CRX HF and he would talk about getting 60mpg tanks occassionally and regularly getting tanks in the 50s. The Metro XFI could get around 50 or so if driven carefully.
Any average tank in the 50's is good especially for a gasser only. But my point is that only the Hybrids are consistently in the 50's now. Not the new gassers. And some of them are more expensive then the Insight to boot.

When I go to fill up my running average for a tank is in the 51-52 mpg range and that is with mixed driving - some highway, some urban and some sub-urban.:cool:
 

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I think it is true that you need to look at "real world" gas mileage numbers. My Insight regularly gets 40 mpg in mixed driving. Even though there are plenty of cars that can get close to that number for the highway, not many can even achieve 30 mpg in the city.
 

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True Dat on the real world MPG. I fully recognize the rose colored glasses view of average mpg that the Insight presents. But almost every car I have owned that gave average mpg was the same way so it is all relative. My last tank when I took the actual miles / actual gas in was slightly above 49.

At those mpg numbers I can't quibble about a 2% difference since the numbers blow away 99% of all other cars. I just am getting a kick out of driving it and achieving the high numbers.:)

To put it in prespective another vehicle in our family is a 10 mpg diesel motorhome with an 80 gallon fuel tank. I have plotted my fuel consumption on that beast since I purchased it. The only way to know what is going on with it is to do a long term average as everytime you fill up you could there could be a 3-5 gallon variation on how full you are.

Each vehicle has its purpose.
 

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i heard my friends friend has scored 40 mpg on his new ford fiesta..... not hybrid and faster than my I2

kinda jelaous
im scoring 39 right now, cant really score more :mad::confused:
 

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i heard my friends friend has scored 40 mpg on his new ford fiesta..... not hybrid and faster than my I2

kinda jelaous
im scoring 39 right now, cant really score more :mad::confused:
no problem with a light car....the difference between a Honda Fit and the heavier Fit Hybrid is roundabout 1 ltr. ...sometimes less.

but a prefer the I2 over any Fiesta in almost all aspects ;)
 

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i heard my friends friend has scored 40 mpg on his new ford fiesta..... not hybrid and faster than my I2

kinda jelaous
im scoring 39 right now, cant really score more :mad::confused:
It's doable on highway. I just did a 50km trip (100km roundtrip) on mostly highway with A/C and achieved 4.8L/100km (~49mpg) average speed was 110km/h+
 

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Here are some things to consider.

First, EPA testing by manufacturers is done with with Gasoline. Most cars today are fueled with some amount of alcohol blended with the fuel. This blend shaves between 3% and 5% on the mileage a car can get. My own hybrid gets better mileage when I can fill up with 100% gas, but no one around me sells it. Here is a web site that tries to stay current with stations across the US selling 100% gas. Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

Next, a big part of the gas savings from Hybrids is the savings when the engine shuts down. I read somewhere that Honda says that Autostart would save the average Hybrid owner 15% in fuel vs a standard car that idles. The reports coming out on the internet say that many manfacuters will start equipping their non-hybrids with an Autostart function. This change alone could raise the milege of a non-hybrid as much as 15%. From what I have read, they will use larger batteries and flywheel motor starters in place of traditional starters and AC will be driven electically.

In essence, they will be doing the Honda Hybrid type of powertrain, but not really use the "Assist" function so the can avoid putting a big, heavy, expensive battery pack in the car.
 

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10% ethanol blend has 3.3% less energy than 100% gasoline. I used 100% gasoline for several months and in two of my cars, and was not able to detect a MPG difference. Our engines are about 50% efficient in lean burn. 50% of 3.3 is 1.65%. Easily lost in the variables of every day driving. However, we might be able to start detecting a difference if the corn lobby gets their way and they mandate 15% ethanol blends.

Mazda's autostop is pretty ingenious. It uses regular combustion to restart the engine.

MAZDA:Idling stop technology | Environmental Technology
 

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High mpg petrol cars

There seems to be a lot of leeway in the way mpg returns are calculated, for example my 2006 Jazz 1.4Dsi registered almost 60 mpg on the dashboard gauge on a 400+ mile trip,yet the tank brim to brim figure for consumption was 54 mpg. A +10% discrepancy

Even the odometers can be out, they tend to over-record. Ie the 150,0000 Insight warranty is up to 157,000 to allow for the exaggeration.

It would seem that all the errors conspire to "improve" the true mpg figure, and massage the ego of the owner.

However point taken as to the efforts of the engineers to increase efficiency of modern cars
 

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It's not just the idle stop, its a smaller engine that is needed to get higher MPGs due to the higher cruising load placed on the engine. Even with the 1st Gen Insight and its lean-burn its effectively making the engine behave under an even higher load than a 1 liter engine normally would.

GM's first hybrids used the belt alternator starter system in their cars with a 36 volt NiMh system with some fairly large cells if I remember right. Not sure if there was any or much asist. The Mitsubishi global small car is supposed to have auto-stop too and will probably be the closest thing to the Insight we have coming in the future and I don't think it will use electric assist.

Automakers could have gone auto-stop and used a smaller engine with a turbo and received great gas mileage that way at a lower consumer cost and higher reliability(no expensive HV battery to deal with). The new Li-Ion Civic battery costing less than the NiMh's they are using now is the way to go IMHO for reliability, cost, and performance.
 

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Sales trends are grim

Although I think its a good car, it seems the high mileage gassers are hurting sales, since July 2011 sales have dropped precipitously for an already slow selling car. Honda marketing needs to work on selling a car I believe has a high degree of owner satisfaction. Perhaps emphasizing that it is the city MPG number that matters for many people.

2011 2010 %Change
----- ---- --------
July 987 1858 -44.8%
Aug 961 2,030 -54.5%
Sept 512 1679 -69.5%
Oct 492 1,965 -74.0%

YTD 14,110 17,789 -20.7%

Civic Hybrid
YTD 492 1,965 -74.0%

The Insight YTD numbers are not as bad percentage wise as recent sales because 2011 sales were on par with 2010 until July

Yearly numbers are not promising either, when you consider the 2009 numbers were for only 9 months or so of sales.
2010 - 20962 (12 months)
2009 - 20572 (9 months)
 

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My 1990 Geo Metro automatic averages 45mpg (its a tin can on wheels).. My 2000 Insight 5sp averages 55mpg.

I run the crap out of both of them .. I'm sure I could get better fuel economy but am quite satisfied with them numbers.
 

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I think the low sales numbers could also be effected by the lack of product to sell because of supply issues related to the earthquake. but the main point of this thread is probably somewhat true, why pay for complicated technology when simplicity will get you close? Around here, there are folks who just want to be seen as "green"
 

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i hate people who buy our car (or even the dreaded prius) merely for green cachet ... i would just assume all the green/leaf/hybrid emblems be stripped from the car upon delivery (and yes I did inquire about that at the dealer)
 

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Well you might be able to do that with a Hybrid Civic perhaps, but an Insight or a Prius looks like what it is, and everyone knows what it is. And they are trying to get around you because they assume you are going slow.
 

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In terms of mileage, I don't think the new cars touting 40 mpg hwy driving are going to give the Insight real competition in terms of raw mileage... I have consistently gotten 40+ mpg in all driving, and I have a pretty good mix of urban/highway driving. Locally in Buffalo I travel a lot in city traffic, but I also cross the border to drive around the lake to Toronto regularly. That 100 mile trip (one way) usually yields above 45mpg all the time... So highway driving is still better with the Insight.

These new 40mpg cars, like the Ford Fiesta or the new Hyundai Accent, really only achieve that during optimal highway driving at their best. When you drive in the city, they are usually averaging much closer to 30... Not even 35mpg.

These cars are probably winning sales not for their higher mpg, but because they are feature packed for a lower price. Plus the Insight does - for all its perks - have a very quirky driving experience. Everyone I have had in my car for a test drive notes they don't like the A/C and heat shutting off whenever the engine shuts off.

Even if fuel begins to average $5/gallon, in the US (its already averaging $4.50/gallon in Canada, and there isn't movement there toward hybrids), that isn't enough incentive for people to buy hybrids in mass. I think the econo-gas only cars still whet the appetites of most drivers, especially when cars like the Fiesta have really cool features like Bluetooth, Ford Sync, and all kinds of features that are standard for a price starting below the Insight. If you want the alloy wheels and "perks" then it gets up to the base price of the Insight when the Insight lacks any of these features until you spend thousands more.

So... People are showing a willingness to take a cut in fuel economy for other features. While the Insight is the lowest cost hybrid on the market, it still has a hard time competing against the economy sector - for whatever reason. For some people its the AC/heat shut off issue, others its the fact that it lacks features like Bluetooth unless you spend thousands more than the base model.

People are expecting more features as opposed to 15mpg improvement in fuel economy, which is good or bad depending on what viewpoint you are coming from.
 
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