[boogetyboogety]

My dear Mr. Gerdes:

A small point. Please, don't take this the wrong way, I mean no harm :wink: .

I. And possibly most Insight owners as well. Did NOT buy the Insight with a cost-benefit ratio in mind.

I paid over $3,000 for a Mac Plus back in the mid '80s. It was an outrageous amount for a computer then, and I. Didn't. Care. It was cool, and I bought it without worrying about getting my money back.

I. NEVER. Buy based on price or return on investment ONLY. I'm sure you don't either. Otherwise, we would all be buying the Cheapest and the Stuff On Sale only. I don't see the highways clogged with Kias and I don't see lines snaking out of McDonald's. I do see lines snaking out of expensive, cool restaurants that provide the public with quality, novelty, and feel-good times.

My Insight is cool and it couldn't draw more attention than if it was on fire. It is the first vehicle of its kind, and as such, it is chock-a-block full of compromises along with cutting-edge technology. I expect such passion from a vehicle that goes to the trouble of saving weight by having a carbon fiber oil dip stick. In the words of Ash in Alien, "I admire it's purity..."

If I put a sharp pencil to it, my Insight is probably all you say it is, moneywise. But I don't pick my fun by lowest cost, I don't pick my women by weight, and I don't pick my friends by politics or religion. And if my Insight someday goes to that great Hybrid Parking Lot in the sky, I'll miss it... and go right back out and buy whatever's cool and neat the year that happens (where are the hovercars I was promised when I was young...?) :lol: ...and not rue a nickel I spent on it. Life is a cabaret, ol' chum...

 

[Delta Flyer]

Most things in life that have a feverent following tend to be a niche, not a crowd. The Mac and the Insight seem to be in this category. Not a lot of people have them, but the ones that do love it! If the Insight was all things to all people, it would probably be a piece of junk! The Space Shuttle is a perfect example of something built to be all things to all people (NASA, the Department of Defense...). It failed tragically.

This Insight was designed to get the best-ever mileage of a mass-produced car. So it may not be truly a budget car because of this. I don't think the technology and marketplace has allowed a brand-new 70 mpg economy car in America yet (Yes, I know about the Smart, but it's not allowed here).

I forgot who suggested taking out the electric engine out of the Insight, but it's integrated into it. It's the starter, flywheel, generator, the "turbo". I am pleased that the Insight accelerates quite a bit faster than the CRX-HF. Unfortunately, some urban situations make that zip very desirable. Doing that is like eating an ice cream cone without ice cream. This is a hybrid forum. Just talking for myself, I don't know why I'd be in a forum very long in a theme I disagreed with, be it hybrids or whatever. I mean, if I were a golfer, why be in a tennis club?

It would be nice if there were more economy subcompacts. The automakers are building SUVs instead unfortunately.

 

[Billy]

interesting points; maybe I can contribute. I have had 2 Insight 5 speeds now, I purchased both brand new. I have put 71,000 miles total on them. Previously I had a 1987 CRX HF and I drove it 502,000 highway miles with no problems. I LOVE my Insight because of 2 things: the freedom of getting 85 mpg, and the beautiful aero design shape of the car. It is absolutely an amazing work of art and airflow management.
But you must realize, in context, that Honda wanted this car as a proof of concept vehicle; the time was right for a hybrid. They were not solely out for absolute maximum mpg. Indeed, I have roughly calculated that without all the electrics, the anti-lock brakes, dual airbags, (like the CRX did not have) the car would accelerate quite well and get about 2% higher mpg on the highway. A very basic aluminum lightweight, tall-geared 3 cylinder honda with this same body shape would be a super mpg cruiser, but nowdays airbags are mandated by law, and people want a.b.s. and power windows and cruise, etc. I am just an unusual guy who only wants 2 seats, and to travel the freeways at the highest possible MPG!! Billy.......

 

[Billy]

Mr. Silver Streaker: My sense is that there is no coordinated, specific attempt at negativity, but some owners have become frustrated recently. I think it is because (1) we have just come through a very hot summer, and all these recalibrations seem heat related. It has worried some people. (2) there are some technically sophisticated issues with this car, and it takes a while to gain knowledge. Some of the newer folks ask questions, and maybe have their facts out of order. Remember, we tend to fear what we don't understand. Anyway, I am extremely happy with my car, and have never had a recalibration, or any other problem. I do all my own service, and I LOVE working on it and cleaning it!! Billy....

 

[boogetyboogety]

Good points as well...

But consider this: You are trying to make something (in this case, an Insight) into something it's not.

What I do care about is that it receives 70 + mpg, has low maintenance requirements, and that I can make that battery pack last 5 + years over 250,000 miles. A decent ride quality w/ 50 #’s in the tires would be nice but I think I might be asking for a bit much...

Thant's not an Insight. An Insight battery pack just ain't gonna last 250K miles IMHO. It comes with proprietary (for all practical purposes) tires on unique wheels that add to its mileage claims. Futz with those integral items, and there goes your 70 mpg. So you'd be spending ~$20K for ultimate mileage, then you are going to spend more $$ to defeat its purpose. :? :?: :shock:

My wife’s MDX is another story given she wanted a Lux SUV and I picked one up for her at the best price available at the time. To bad its city mileage isn’t nearly as good as I can achieve on the hwy and the fact that after 10 years, I will have lost 30K...

No, you didn't lose $30K. That's what it cost you to drive your SUV (or whatever vehicle, I don't think SUVs are the evil things some people say they are, they do have a purpose in our marketplace). You know the depreciation going in on most vehicles (those who bought Daewoos may scream now), and you figure your cost per annum on that basis. That's what leases do.

Some people may go to Vegas and "lose" $1000. I go to Vegas and plan on spending $1000 on the entertainment value alone. If I win more, hey, super... but I know what it's going to cost me upfront and budget accordingly. That's not a loss: that's what it costs me to go to Vegas. Your $30K is what it cost you for the convenience, security, and prestige of driving an SUV.

An Insight is an Insight with all its pluses and minuses. Delta Flyer is on-spot right when he says...

This Insight was designed to get the best-ever mileage of a mass-produced car. So it may not be truly a budget car because of this. I don't think the technology and marketplace has allowed a brand-new 70 mpg economy car in America yet (Yes, I know about the Smart, but it's not allowed here).

I hope I have added to the thought process instead of making some people uncomfortable. I LOOOOOOVE my Insight, and I'm very passionate about it... and that's why it's in my garage

 

[Guillermo]

Only once I have driven with the battery drained and I can tell you electric assist makes a huge difference in acceleration!
It doesn't decrease the 0-60 time by 1 or 2 seconds, it's probably about 8 seconds!
Can someone that keeps getting battery recalibrations measure their 0-60 time when their battery is drained and post your time?

Electric assist is not just a luxury that allows the Insight to accelerate with everyday traffic. The energy storage technology greatly increases the car's efficiency in rolling hills and city driving.

If you really want to save money my buy a $1,500 civic that's 10 years old and membership for CAA or AAA.

 

[Delta Flyer]

Something else to consider: automotive hybrid technology is still quite new (this may be decades old in GM diesel-electric locomotives). As of this writing, Toyota and Honda are the only players. I'm sure that better motors and batteries will improve the performance. Why someone suggested putting a Civic motor and battery pack on an Insight. We are pioneers, and the application of this technology is still new.

 

[Delta Flyer]

Mr. Silver Streaker: My sense is that there is no coordinated, specific attempt at negativity, but some owners have become frustrated recently....

I think part of the frustration or skeptism is people that don't realize what the Insight is for. It's a green, mileage machine, that can still manage to act like a Mini Cooper with it's zip.

I have actually put six-foot landscape piers and trees in the back on my Insight. It was funny because it's not a pickup truck!

In a year or so, Honda, Ford, somebody is finally going to introduce a hybrid SUV. I expect a lot of lead-foots complaining about running the batteries down. It won't be the fault of the manufacture. If someone wants to go full-throttle on a hybrid, they will probably run the batteries down in 20 minutes. Aggressive stop-and-go driving should really drain the batteries on a heavier vehichle. Hybrids were never designed to always run with the pedal-to-the-metal - it defeats the concept. But just wait - some people are going to buy a hybrid SUV and think it will support their poor driving habits. :roll:

 

[james]

"Why did Honda go through the trouble to add a 6 HP/25 Ft.-lb’s torque motor/generator (albeit at a very low RPM), the associated controls, and batteries for 1 to 2 seconds better 0 – 60 times?"

I imagine their main reason was to get hybrid technology out in the real world. Sure, they could have left it out and made a 0-60 in 14 seconds car that wouldn't have gotten quite as good mileage, or added a 4th cylinder, and made an updated CRX. Either of those would just be more of the same old stuff, though.

Hybrid technology is new, and new technologies cost more, so there's small point in putting them in a low-end, pure economy car. Both Honda and Toyota started out by putting the new technology in something unusual, to attract the techies & early adopters. (And are still selling them at a loss.) But as the bugs get worked out in the real world - not just in the car, but in the production process - the technology will become cheaper and better, and you'll see it migrate into more mass-market vehicles. Eventually those will replace all those '83 Cutlasses out there, after we upgrade to the 2013 Insight Mark 4