[barrettblake]

Rebalanced my Insight battery Pack

After 273K miles I needed another battery pack. Honda prices too high, online services too risky, 2010 Honda mileage too low and used battery packs not good enough.

Solution: Do it myself and Save and have peace of mind. Here is my general approach...

I purchased another battery pack (mine from LKQ motors. [Honda Civic battery packs use the same sub packs.] Each sub pack (6 D-size batteries wielded into a long orange stick) was removed and tested against Honda specifications. I combined the best from my pack and the pack from LKQ. This approach works because a single sub pack can cause the IMA codes which prevent use of the other good sub packs. Chances are you have many great sub packs being overridden by one or a few bad ones. Same applies to the used battery packs out there in the world. [Each sub pack has a very long potential life span (of years).]

I will install and test drive my rebuilt (rebalanced) battery pack 150 per day locally (city/hwy) for a few days and then take a 600 miles hwy test drive on this weekend on flat, gradual inclines and a few hilly tracts.

Here is what I learned…even without neither automotive nor electrical skills.

The battery pack is easy to remove…and has lots of bolts that incase it. Removal is well documented in the Honda service manual. Manuals are online at eBay. Disconnect the car battery and turn off the switch on top of the battery pack. The switch is easy to see and is marked as such. The pack is not “heavy”, has about 10 or so of computer-like connectors that can’t be reconnected wrong and the cables are not as dangerous to fumble fingers like mine as I’d feared. They are bright orange and can be touched by rubber gloves, boots and rubber handle tools.

After removal, find a friend with electrical skills that can measure voltage, charge and apply a load to each of the 20 sub packs.

I paid $250 for the LQK pack PLUS labor for the friend. My friend and I live in the Austin/San Antonio Texas area.

 

[E27006]

Your Pack rebuild

If I understand your post, you bought a second hand pack for a Honda Civic for spares and fitted the best sticks into your Insight.

The Civic pack, did it contain 20 subpacks or 22 in total?

The first Civic hybrid had 20 making 144 Volts, the next generation Civic had 22 subpacks making 156 volts.


There is also a question about thermocouples on the subpacks, I wish to defer that until I have figured out the exact Civic hybrid model your pack came from

 

[uhtrinity]

Only the Civic packs up to 2004 will work. The 2005 and newer uses a different connection scheme (no backplane board), and does add an additional set of sticks. The 2005 and newer would require some significant mods, I would use Prius subpacks considering the work involved.

Here is a thread about the topic:
2004 Honda Civic Battery - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum

 

[Artric]

How is everything running?

You should consider selling the extra packs and you could probably make your money back.

 

[Hybrid-Battery-Repair]

No.

2003-2005 Civics are identical. The 2006+ Civic use the 11 pairs of double sticks. 2005 HAH uses 10 pairs of double sticks. (I don't know about the 2006 and 2007 HAH or the 2010 Insight).

Incidentally, the double sticks appear to be electrically identical to the earlier sticks, but with different endcaps. Both ends of the U-sticks are square, and the connected side is simply welded together.

The interesting thing is that the end plate that they fit into will fit a gen 1 stick's hex end and there is enough play in the other side that you could probably strap a pair of gen 1 sticks together with a connector bar and make them work in place of a U-stick.

Only the Civic packs up to 2004 will work. The 2005 and newer uses a different connection scheme (no backplane board), and does add an additional set of sticks. The 2005 and newer would require some significant mods, I would use Prius subpacks considering the work involved.

Here is a thread about the topic:
2004 Honda Civic Battery - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum

 

[Hybrid-Battery-Repair]

How is everything running?

You should consider selling the extra packs and you could probably make your money back.

I'm the only one that (willingly) buys bad sticks.

 

[Hybrid-Battery-Repair]

There is also a question about thermocouples on the subpacks, I wish to defer that until I have figured out the exact Civic hybrid model your pack came from

The Gen 2 packs have no PTC strips, and instead of three thermistors taped behind shrink tubing on the Civic pack (four on the Insight), there are three sensors that are clipped onto the batteries. While this is a more elegant solution, it is a pain in the neck to thread the wires in 3D through the battery stack.

 

[uhtrinity]

You're correct concerning the Civic packs. I was going based on another members experience. He had purchased a 2006 pack a few years ago and posted his finding. I hadn't looked at the post in a while and thought it was 2005.

~paste
I got the 2006 Civic pack today. I had a few minutes this evening to tear into it.
The pack is denser, the sticks are in pairs held together with small plastic clips. They use two colors, orange and
green to prevent mix ups by laying in a pack upside down. The pairs don't slide into anything, they are all stacked in
a honeycomb type matrix and the whole pack is clamped together with some long bolts at the corners.
There are 11 pairs in there .
Each stick pair has the high currect screws at one end, one is positive the other negative. The non screw end has a weld
bus across the end with a plastic cap.
There are no temp. sense strips, but there are 4 or so clamp on thermistors in there .
I have not taken apart my 2001 pack yet, so I don't know how much work it will be to retrofit the 2006 cells into the 2001
battery box.
I hope I'm not heading down a dead end with this 06 pack !

Does anyone have a link to pictures of the Insight pack , and what the *ends* of the cell sticks look like ?
I'm afraid that the pair system may be too hard to fit into the old single stick system.
-Les

 

[Artric]

I'm the only one that (willingly) buys bad sticks.

Buy he bought a whole battery pack. I assume that he used only a few, so he'd have a ton left! I'd hate to see them sit around and just go bad.

 

[Hybrid-Battery-Repair]

Buy he bought a whole battery pack. I assume that he used only a few, so he'd have a ton left! I'd hate to see them sit around and just go bad.

He probably swapped out the whole set.

They don't go bad from sitting IF you recondition them before using them. The problem is that his old ones are most likely worn and a lot of the electrolyte has probably boiled off, etc.

I'll buy that pig-in-a-poke. I don't recommend that anyone else does.

 

[mws]

How do you recondition them?

He probably swapped out the whole set.

They don't go bad from sitting IF you recondition them before using them. The problem is that his old ones are most likely worn and a lot of the electrolyte has probably boiled off, etc.

I'll buy that pig-in-a-poke. I don't recommend that anyone else does.

I have a presumed dead IMA pack I just removed last night from my parts-car insight.

 

[Hybrid-Battery-Repair]

I have a presumed dead IMA pack I just removed last night from my parts-car insight.

So, do you want to sell it?

 

[insight707]

My IMA light just came on. And I am quite poor. I have no way of actually knowing which sticks are bad in the IMA pack. And I was wondering if there is any way to get a complete set of sticks and try the replacing of the sticks myself?

Any previous experience, hints, tips, tricks, and where to go's would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ericbecky]

You can search around here for general info.

Prices have increased considerably for used packs since the this thread started in 2010.
Have you thought about building a grid charger yourself?
Costs less than $100.

Or buy a built grid charger for around $500.

I'd be happy to talk through some options on the phone.

Where are you located? If near me we can just meet in person.

 

[nayrhyno]

Highly suggest you just get a charger and tack out the pack and do a stick level recal. ~$100 for a charger that can handle charging the sticks. It's really not so hard, and makes a huge difference. Even if you have "bad" cells they can come back to be quite good overall. Then you can figure out the cells that are really bad, and replace those.

 

[insight707]

Im located in California. Though I do have comcast unlimited for the home phone. Im just pretty much at a complete loss. Dude I bought this car from said he had the battery replaced and now I am having IMA issues 350 miles after I bought the damn thing.

 

[Grzpdlr]

Ima

Im located in California. Though I do have comcast unlimited for the home phone. Im just pretty much at a complete loss. Dude I bought this car from said he had the battery replaced and now I am having IMA issues 350 miles after I bought the damn thing.

Where in California

 

[insight707]

Located in Santa Rosa. Just north of San Francisco.

 

[insight707]

Okay so after quite a bit of reading and learning on how to do some stuff. I have come to the realization that going hybrid just became a bit of a headache. But I have found a grid charger and I was just wondering if anyone has actually bought one from this company that I am about to post if so how did it work for you? did you get it with the discharge option and would you recommend getting one? Or should I just try and make one myself? Though I do have to say that I am not able to solder and a lot of the more technical things that would go along with putting this grid charger together.

Grid Chargers - Hybrid Automotive - Honda & Toyota Grid Chargers

 

[jeff652]

Bummer to hear you are having IMA trouble so quickly after buying the car.

I am not far from you, down in San Jose (OK, not really that close either).

Several people on the forum have my chargers, and will probably chime in soon. If you want to read some comments from past eBay customers now, you can click here:
eBay Feedback

I wouldn't recommend buying on eBay though, as I offer an IC.net member discount when purchased direct. Feel free to email me through the website or PM me here for more info