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Discussion Starter #1
I bought an insight with 78k on it. Its had a tick at cold start since I got it, I was hoping it was just a lifter or something. Changed the oil and found bearing material in it, and the noise has developed. Its very likely a rod bearing from what I hear.

What is the warranty on the engine? Can I take advantage of it since I bought it third party? Im at 79820 miles right now, so its pretty important if its covered by an 80k warranty I know soon, otherwise I guess im just plain out.

Thanks for the responses
 

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Welcome to the forum.

A quick Gooogle search yielded the following from a Canadian article at, http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jm/04insight.htm :

"Warranty is always a major concern with innovative technology. Honda offers 3-year/60,000 km basic, with 5-year/100,000 km on the powertrain and 8-year/130,000 km on the motor assist components." It looks like 8 years 80,000 miles is for the IMA components.

Another site http://www.hybridexperience.ca/Honda_Insight.htm says:

“The Hybrid components of the Honda Insight have an 8-year/130,000 km warranty while the non-hybrid components have a 3-year/60,000 km warranty.”

Best check with a local dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thats whats confusing me, so many diffrent numbers, I was hoping someone would tell me they found a number that covered it, lol.

I called the dealership for pricing on a rebuild.

$235 for a complete gasket kit
$318 for a Clutch kit.

I still need to price bearings and rings, but the guy started talking about how it was odd that the engine was going out, and what not, and wanted to transfer me to service, said they might be able to help me.

The guy in service said it was indeed odd at 79k (which I agree) but said it was a very grey area with Honda. He said the normal proceedure is that I would have to agree to pay whatever, then if when they tore it down, if they found something defective, like a failed oil pump, then Honda would cover it, but if they found signs of abuse or neglect, or even inconclusive, I would have to pay the agreed price.

Well, I know they are not going to find anything conclusive, its not a catastrophic failure, it could be as something as simple as a rod cap not getting torqued to spec, or excessive tolerances, or just plain bad luck, nothing they would find.

I told him I bought it from some very... "concerned "(read anal) people, and had records of every oil change, flat repair or bug picked off the windshield since it was new, literally an inch of paper.

He said I should call Honda and talk to them, so I might give it a shot. I mean, when I bought it, a big part was because it was a Honda, it should last forever right? Not, I run it down the road and back and have to rebuild the engine.
 

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2001 5S "Turbo"
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How did you come to the conclusion that the material found in the oil was bearing material?
If I was doing the work, based on your symptoms I would remove the valve cover and check the top end first. (Valve adjustment, chain, camshaft, etc.) This is the easiest.
A bad main bearing or rod bearing would definately be a loud rattle and would vary on acceleration and deceleration. (Load no Load)
Also check the heat shield on the number one cat.
Rather than bebuild the engine, how about a "short block" or my choice would be a"long block".
My opinion. ;)

Willie
 

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Discussion Starter #5
There were shimmery waves in the oil and from the filter as I dumped it out. The only thing in an engine that causes that is bearing wear.

That along with the tick that turns into a knock when you go to 3k in 1st and hold the RPMs so there is neither load nor accelleration on the engine, allong with noises it makes at other load conditions.

If I could find a shortblock, I would, but if I have to get it from the dealership, it would be a lot cheaper just to rebuild the one I have. Though I am impressed at the costs so far, except for the pricey clutch kit
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I just called Honda customer support, and they tell me 3\36 on the ICE, though, get this, she tells me 5 years on the battery. Why I dont know, I didnt even ask about the battery, I asked "what is the warranty on the gasoline engine"

And I dont think 5 years is right anyway, as the "Honda 2000 Warranty Information" book right here on my desk lists 8/80, and from what I've heard and seen here, its been upgraded to 10/100

THIS is why I want to know what the ICE warranty is, someone somewhere might have something that says 8/80, and im just 180 miles away from crossing that.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Status update:

I called Honda Customer service yesterday. They wernt openely hopeful, but mostly negative. Said I would have to take it to a Honda dealership to have it diagnosied, which I had expected. Other than that they took all my information and what not. I told them I would get it into the dealership by Friday

Someone else called me today, just a little over 24 hours after the first call. Im guessing the person I called yesterday was just a call center, and this was the person that I would actualy be working with. While it was encouraging that someone called me this soon, she was quite discouraging in what she said.

She pretty much asked all the same questions as the person yesterday, but then went on to say how they usualy consider customer loyalty and what not in these instances, and they base it on customers that have bought Hondas in the past and had thier service performed at honda and, to quote her "you have not" That was a little snippy in my opinion.

I hate to break it to her, but

A: This is only my second car, so I havent had a chance to buy Hondas in the past,
B: they dont sell the Insight at dealerships, and the chances of finding a used one in my area were slim to none, much less at a Honda dealership I WANTED to buy it from a dealer to get the extended warranty, but no one could get one, and
C: I havent had it long enough to have service performed on it.
D: I went to the Honda dealership to buy parts for it, they were the ones who said I should call.

So you sure cant say I havent tried.

She went on to tell me how I would be responsible for diagnostic fees and I may be responsible for the teardown. If the guys at the dealership would have talked to me like this, I would have probably just sold the car at a loss and bought a Prius. At this rate I might still do that. I sure as heck know a Prius isnt going to need an engine at 79k.

She talked about how they liked to reward customer loyalty, well in my eyes, Im a person to be made into a loyal customer, being as im just entering the period of my life where I might be buying cars. There are two outcomes, actually three.

1: They dont do anything for me, I grumble but cant blame them, it is out of warranty. I leave the situation with a very damaged image of Honda. To be frank, the reason I was comfortable buying this car was because it was a Honda, so I figured, hey its good for 150-200+ thousand miles and because I had heard so many good things about the way Honda handles its warranty and also because I thought they came with a much longer warranty.

2: They keep talking to me like this, tick me off enough I sell this and go buy something else and forever tell the story of my experience with Honda.

3: They help me out with this, and when the subject of cars comes up, I tell people how Honda helped me out and really stood behind thier cars even out of warranty.

I dont expect anything out of them, but after the way she talked to me like Honda expects so much out of a person before they will care...
 

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Honda longevity

One thing I have found after owning hundreds of cars is that Hondas usually go a lot of miles. I put 300 k on an old civic and am driving an insight now that has over 200k hard miles on it. Having just your second car now it would be ashame to rule Honda out just because you got a bad engine. We had a range rover that blew the bottom out of the engine last year and it was only a year old with only 20 k miles. I used to work for mercedes benz and customer loyalty was a huge part of our decision to pay for something. It was the first thing we looked at , how many new cars they had bought and how much service they were buying. we would almost always do whatever neccesary to please customers that were loyal to the dealerships, with the exception of the parts dept.
Robert
Kalispell, Mt.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I guess I forgot, or rather didnt realize, option #4: They lie to me, try to screw me over, and generally just piss me off.

SO IT STARTS...

I got a call yesterday from the Service manager. They've had the car two days, listening to it and what not. Well he says there is a noise there, but its not loud. Now from what the Customer Service people told him, he thought I was going to have to have it towed in, apparently they led him to believe it was spun and undrivable.

He goes on to tell me, yes you can definitely hear a knocking when you drive allong side a building, and from inside the car if you listen. He asks me if it ever changes pitch and what not. I tell him no, and that you cant hear it on the highway, mainly due to the road noise. He reccomends (for some reason I still dont understand) having the valves adjusted for $170, and says that might be some of the noise. He seems rather iffy about this, and later in the conversation admits that he doesnt think thats it, so why is he reccomending it? He is incredibly helpful, when I tell him I'll probably just do it myself, he tells me all about the diffrent size bearings and spends 5 minutes reading through the service manual for tips. What we end in is that officially im just going to wait and see if it gets worse, all in all im very satisfied and understand.

It also came up that I told him I really didnt expect anything from the attitude that the customer service rep took with me, and I told him how she grilled me about it all. He tells me that is definitely not the impression he got from them, and that its normal that they ask those questions, but he felt they were very open to helping me. I explicitally asked him, in his honest opinion, if he thought the valves needed adjusted, and he told me no


So today I get a call from the customer service rep.

She starts telling me how the Service Manager contacted her, and according to her he said that the noise is extremely quiet, and you can only hear it when driving next to a building, or when you have the hood open and are listening in the engine bay for it. He supposedly said that its not noticalbe from inside the car or at highway speeds. She said he reccomended adjusting the valves and that I had declined the service. She also said they had "screened" the oil and found nothing.

I objected, telling her that is absolutely not what we talked about, and summarized what we talked about, she snapped back that this is what he told her and what not. She asked what I planned to do, and I replied "Well I guess im going to drive it until the engine explodes since nothing is wrong." and told her that I had another shop and an independant mechanic confirm this was the problem.

I told her I would probably take it to another dealership "blindly" and just tell them "hey, I've got this noise, can you tell me what it is?" She snapped back about how it would have to be a Honda dealership, I told her I know, and I would probably take it to one in Columbus. So then she starts grilling me about what dealership I'm taking it to, so she can call them to check with them. I told her I wasnt sure, and the whole point of a blind diagnosis was to get an uninfluenced second opinion. She still insisted I tell her where I was taking it, I just told her I wasnt sure, there were a lot of dealerships down there.

So given that shes a total b**** and someone here is lying to me, im inclined to believe its her. I can also about guarentee that the only reason im being told it needs a valve adjustment is someone told him "well try to charge him as much as you can before you give a diagnosis, see if he will just go away"

I said going into this, I dont care if they just tell me "hey it outta warranty, you're out of luck" thats their perogative, but to treat me like this, talk to me like they have been, lie to me, and in general just treat me like crap, thats unacceptable. I can honestly say im probably never buying another Honda, realizing how poor their warraties actually are, I mean 3\36? Thats on par with the worst warranties in the industry, even the service manager agreed the warranties arent very good on most Hondas.
 

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Honda warantee

My insight is a 2001 and has over 200 k miles and the dealership just did a bunch of work to it and didnt charge me anything. They replaced all the batteries and did some other things and now are trying to get the catalytic converters covered. Pretty cool I think. They didnt charge anything, I asked them to adj the valves if it needed and they said it was fine.
 
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