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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've been getting an avg of 53 mpg round trip 50 miles to my college and back. I've so far changed sparks, cleaned the throttle body, the map sensor, egr valve, changed oil with the best amsoil synthetic, ran seafoam through brake booster, used the techron fuel system cleaner, and lucas fuel system cleaner.

I've done some other stuff just need to remember. So far I'm just getting 53.5 mpg and getting into lean burn is much harder then I though even with a light foot all the time. Running the tires at 42 psi all around as well. Any ideas?

I have a 2000 manual insight.
 

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Most likely it's just your environmental conditions.

Is this on the highway? What speed? Where do you live?
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
This is mix of city/highway. On highway I get 58-60 or so. Weather now in san diego is 78 degrees, speed is pretty slow too be honest, but it depends. I keep speed limit at all points of time, meaning 65-70 highway most the time.

My battery is weak, do you think that's the cause?
 

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are you sure you are getting lean burn? recently my primary a/f sensor went bad, so I have not been getting any lean burn, and have been getting mpg similar to yours. (55-60mpg)

The way I tell if I get lean burn is if when the mpg bar sorta sticks to around 75mpg even when you are pushing the throttle, and when you push it too far, it falls out of lean burn and goes to 50mpg.

at the moment, with my bad o2 sensor, it seems like it does leanburn, but I dont think it really is, because when you let off the throttle a little the bar does go above 100mpg, but when you re-apply some throttle while the bar is going down, it doesnt hang at 75-80mpg, but instead just goes smoothly all the way down to 50mpg.

but your speeds are a little high. For going 65-70mph, I'd say around 60-65mpg is normal. For driving 55-60mph, I usually see 75mpg.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I actually have had times in the last 1k miles where i've hung around in the 75 mpg or 100 mpg zones for a good 2-3 minutes. Does that mean my 02 sensor and fuel/air sensors are working or do you think that's the issue? I thought that may be the issue so i cleaned the o2 sensor a bit, but it didn't do much. Note though when i let go of the peddle and then press on the gas it immediately drops out of lean and goes down quite a bit to like 45-55 range.
 

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Sounds and acts like "lean burn" is normal to me. Where in SD are you at? Terrain will have a hugh impact. What routes are you taking to college and back.
Would you like to get a few SD? Insighters together for a comparasion run?

Willie
 

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weak battery may cause your car to recharge at all times, at this speed and bad battery I was getting similar mileage.. With grid charging at nights and slowing down to-50-55 miles on the Highway I get ~75mpg.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
You know what it may be my battery. I'm building a grid charger together, and it should be done tommorrow, when i first bought my car and used a normal 12v charger (it charged the 12v and insight's ima battery at the same time oddly) I got 75 mpg, which is odd, since I haven't been able to get that since the charge :) I'll keep you updated!

Btw I'm located near poway, ca. My routes are mostly the I-15 down to downtown and back.
 

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It sounds like it may be your battery, yeah.

Unless your engine is throwing codes, I wouldn't worry about things much since you've taken care of the basics. It would tell you if your O2 sensors were on their way out.
 

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Vmir;
Then you've got at least 6 long grades to pull (there and back) so your avg. mpg is about right.
Don't think the 12V charger can charge both batteries at the same time.?

HTH
Willie
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well it did oddly enough. Anyone know why that happened?

But yea it's not throwing codes. Btw for the spark plugs, I torques them to ~15 using a beam torque and anti-seize is that fine or must be they be accurately be set to 17 to use the optimal spark?
 

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I wouldn't worry about electrode position deviation due to less torque, just the fact that they will be more likely to back out. I'd check them again after like 100 miles or a few warm/cool cycles, just to be sure.

As far as the HV battery charging from the 12V side, I don't think that is possible..
 

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the 12v charger probably just charged the 12v to its full, so that when you went for the drive, the IMA didnt have to work itself to try to charge the 12v since it was already topped up, and thus didnt have to start a hidden charge putting a slight load on the engine, inturn giving better mpg for that trip

sometimes I can kinda feel when the DC-DC converter kick in to charge the 12v battery, and some hidden charge on the 144v battery starts as well.
 

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I'm getting about the same mileage as you, I normally get 55 to 57 MPG but I also drive around 70 to 75 MPH. Lately I've dropped to 53 and 54 MPG but I have had my A/C on for a few days and have been doing a lot of city/ stop and go driving with my A/C on. I'm slowly getting back to 55 MPG but I have to slow down a bit...hehe!
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Well guys I'm trickle charging my 12v, I'll let you know what happens. This will be quite interesting. Btw when I drive on the highway at 95 mph, I get 58 mpg, I found that to be quite funny :) That happened a lot on my trip up nor cal, so it's not a one time thing, it seems like it goes into some sort of rich burn mode at super high speeds.

Edit: If my battery is blown, I might just get one of these: http://www.batteryspec.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?action=link&product=22 or http://www.batteryspec.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?action=link&product=26 as they are great batteries and are revered by the lotus community :) They also last a long time without needing to be charged if you don't use the car. Price wise they are on par if not better then junk store batteries. They weight 15 pounds vs the normal 28 lb's we're used to. Only thing I'm worried about is mounting.
 

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If my battery is blown, I might just get one of these: BAB22-12***Tempest High performance. Sealed Lead-Acid AGM Rechargeable Battery or BAB26-12***Tempest High performance. Sealed Lead-Acid AGM Rechargeable Battery as they are great batteries and are revered by the lotus community :) They also last a long time without needing to be charged if you don't use the car. Price wise they are on par if not better then junk store batteries. They weight 15 pounds vs the normal 28 lb's we're used to. Only thing I'm worried about is mounting.
I have used a similar Odyssey PC680 AGM battery in my Insight for several years. This Odyssey battery is a similar size to the batteries that you're considering. To mount them, you'll need to pad under, around, and maybe on top of your small battery. I use stiff packing foam (but not styrofoam which falls apart). You may also need to remount the existing ground strap. I moved my ground strap from the firewall to an existing bolt on the battery box frame so that the ground strap would reach the negative battery terminal.

You'll also need to install battery terminals compatible with your battery cables. On my first Odyssey battery, I bought appropriate length stainless steel bolts to attach the lead battery terminals from my old battery to my Odyssey battery. I drilled appropriate size holes through the centers of both terminals on my old battery. I then sawed the old terminals off using a hacksaw. I bolted these old lead terminals onto my Odyssey battery. This worked well for the life of the battery.

For my current Odyssey battery, I bought
that screw into the existing Odyssey battery terminal attachment holes. These might fit the batteries that you are considering if you choose not to use the terminals on your old battery.

So nothing should really prevent you from using the batteries that you're considering if you're willing to perform a few simple tasks.
 

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I also am thinking about going SLA/AGM, but I'm not concerned about weight savings or anything. If anything, the front end needs more weight. It's hard to get it to hook up unless both your tires and the pavement are scorching. Otherwise, the front end just bounces.. lol.

I'll probably find the biggest AGM battery I can find that will fit once my current battery deteriorates a little more.

Also thought about getting two smaller batteries and wiring them in parallel with a diode and switch. Reserve battery. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I heard the the AGM compared to the bab22 was worse and just cost 2x the price: Check this out.
New Sealed Battery Option - Cheaper, Better! - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community

These guys used both, and found the bab22 to be good so far notwithstanding long term test, and it cost half the price as the odyssey.

I got my battery trickle charged today and tested it at 100 percent charge. It was at 12.82v, does that mean it's still good or are there better tests out there?
 

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The only way to really tell would be to do a load test.

But yes 12.8V is normal after charging. It should slowly settle down to 12.7V, which is fully charged for a resting lead acid battery.

BTW, just to avoid any confusion..

AGM = Absorbed Glass Mat.
SLA = Sealed Lead Acid, which usually uses AGM technology; AKA 'maintenance free'

This is opposed to a flooded lead acid battery, in which the electrolyte can spill if the battery is tipped, and it requires periodic specific gravity tests and/or the addition of distilled water.

Bab22 is just the model of the battery.
 
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