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Discussion Starter #1
The IMA & "check" engine lights came on today. Batt level went to 1 bar, and no assist or regenerative braking. But otherwise runs fine.
My car is 5 years old (2002) this month, and has 113k on the clock mostly all highway commuting from Danville, to San Jose and back every day (95 miles) with no other problems past or present.
I did, however notice that in the last few months, these lights did light up once, but went out after a few run cycles. And also I noticed that the battery level seemed to go down slightly faster than normal (like when accelerating onto the freeway under WOT) but thats about it.
I did not get the ecm update because I read on this forum that performance and effiencey is deminished.
Before I go to the stealer-I mean dealer, does anyone know of a reputable private shop in my area specializing in our cars that I can take it to?
Also, I know of a place on-line that I can get oem (genu. honda parts) for half the cost of the dealer parts dept. If I could get a diagnosis, maybe I could repair it myself. Any thoughts on this???
 

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Before you take it to a third party, take it back to the Stealership and let them diagnose it. Remember, Honda says:

"The IMA battery module is now covered for 10 years or 150,000 miles, whichever occurs first. If the IMA indicator on your vehicle's instrument panel stays on while you are driving, take your vehicle to any Honda dealer for an inspection. If the dealer finds the problem to be the IMA battery module, they will replace it. Depending on your vehicle's year and model, the dealer will also replace one or two additional control modules in the IMA system. This work will be done free of charge (italics mine). Please plan to leave your vehicle at the dealer for a day to allow them flexibility in scheduling."

They should let you know wassup for freeeee... :D
 

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Mikie 12 said:
I did not get the ecm update because I read on this forum that performance and effiencey is deminished.
IMO you may have compromised your position in regard to the _goodwill_ warranty extension. In your state the control modules were to be replaced first. Your chosen delay puts you on weaker ground in the goodwill department.

AFAIK you have to pay a "standard" diagnostic if the failure is not related to one of the few covered items.

See:

Sticky: US IMA warranty 10 year extension UPDATED to all 50 states!
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=4796

for the rest of the story.

HTH! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Update RE my ima/check engine light problems:
OK, now it gets really weird. While I was contemplating which dealer I was going to set an appointment with (as we all know, they don't operate for the convience of their customers when your car is a daily driver), I removed the small battery that's located under the hood so I could service it-topping off the electrolite levels with distilled water, and when I reconnected it, everything went back to normal.
No ima or check engine light. I've put 250 miles on it since, and nothing. Runs great-just like it always did.
If any of you mechanically inclined amateur (shade tree) types have any thoughts, please advise.
Thanks, Michael.
 

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Sounds like you probably have cleared it for now by resetting when you removed the 12v battery. When the IMA light comes on again, go to an AutoZone or similar auto parts store. AutoZone will read the OBD code for free. Get the specific code number. (ie:p1435) Their reader will give a bogus definition if it is IMA related. You can search the definition here at IC. With the code info in hand, you will be a much better informed customer for dealing with your local Honda dealer and the 150,000 mile extended IMA warranty.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks LoNox; That's great advise. Just noticed you have 145k on your clock-does Honda make a good car, or what?
Michael.
 

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Mikie 12 said:
I removed the small battery that's located under the hood so I could service it-topping off the electrolite levels with distilled water, and when I reconnected it, everything went back to normal.
IMO this is sounding a bit contrived. OR you in wayy over your head and better stop before your sorry.

Next time any warning light comes on, get knowledgeable help.
 

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Mikie 12 said:
Thanks LoNox; That's great advise. Just noticed you have 145k on your clock-does Honda make a good car, or what?
Michael.

YES!!! Honda replaced my IMA battery and modules FREE at 137,000. Other than that, that is the only issue I have had with it. (other than the EGR valve)
 

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Mikie 12, you have the exact indicators I had when my battery problems surfaced (see "Post subject: Yuck! P1447 and P1449!" somewhere below). I did not bother to disconnect my starter battery, I just contacted my dealer and took it from there. They were quick to diagnose and replace the needed components (although a bit clueless about normal Insight subtleties, as usual :roll: ). Do take the car in, do NOT let a 3rd party deal with it first (which may jeopardize any sort of accommodation from Honda), take it in as soon as your IMA/CEL lights come on again (and, they will)... ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks all of you for your tips and advise; One more question before I take this car in to the dealer:
After they replaced your parts, and updated the ECM, did any of you experience less IMA performance, and did it effect your fuel mileage?
Another owner I know casually and see ocasionally told me he took his car in for the update and the car was never the same after that. (ie never recharges completely, reduces regenerative braking more frequently than before, limits full assist more often, lower fuel mileage, ect.)
In his opinion the update destroyed his car's designed and advertised efficiency so that Honda could minimize it's waranty repair costs with a hastily, and poorly thought-out and engineered remedy.
There-in lays my problem. That's why I bought this car in the first place, it's superior efficiency!!! And yes, that's why I avoided taking it in for the so called update. I've had other vehicles in the past ('89 Camarro IROC Z) where they "updated" the ECM in my car to remedy a weak transmission, and it never had the original performance after that. So I'm very supicious of this "fix".
Thanks, Michael.
 

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No
Yes

No, I get much more IMA performance.
Yes, it did affect my fuel mileage. I GET BETTER!!!!
I did complain to Honda at first and posted the same here on one of the threads. After talking with Mike Dabrowski one day, he suggested changing my driving style. The IMA is much more aggressive. It is easy to get 100%, but it is very easy to accidentally engage the IMA. I was having a problem with the battery charge being very low. I found that when I left home in the morning, about 4 bars of IMA were lit for the 1 mile very gentle uphill from home to the highway. I learned to drive with less throttle pressure and the battery was not consumed. Also, I had a problem with it charging back up. I could cure it by doing a reset, (disconnecting the 12v for at least 5 seconds.) I then found that the problem was instigated by key off FAS. I increased my lmpg to 63.2 from 62.9 from October to January. Even with the cold temps in the last few months, I have been averaging from 65 to 73 mpg. Several of my trips home in the afternoon have been 80 to 89 mpg for the 49 mile trip. The cold predawn mornings to work have been from 60 to 70 mpg.

I filled up yesterday: 715.9 miles, 10.081gallons @ 71mpg.

So Yes, I do recommend the updates.
 

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After they replaced your parts, and updated the ECM, did any of you experience less IMA performance, and did it effect your fuel mileage?
Yes, the change was detrimental. Mileage dropped by 5-10 MPG and SOC swung wildly up and down (down and up?) until the ultimate insult a few months later, the trouble codes P1447 and P1449, which resulted in the replacement of the battery and apparently, the MCM and the BCM... again. :evil: But... and this is why I think the dealer fouled up the original parts replacement and software upgrade...

After this more all-encompassing repair, the SOC remains nailed at no bars or one bar down, my acceleration is back to normal, and mileage has increased to normal levels. So right now, I'm very happy with my Insight, it's as though it's back to it's younger self. :D
 

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boogetyboogety said:
Reads like you and LoNox confirm the _software_ update makes NO MPG difference (but it does manage IMA charge / assist differently). IIRC up to these 2 posts its not been clear if / how MPG was affected by the change. But since high MPG is achieved through little or no use of IMA assist it was believed that there couldn't / shouldn't be an effect. Its old IMA batteries that fall into the forced charge mode more frequently that begins to degrade high MPG. :| (I'm there, its doing it :( )

New software with an old tired IMA battery is no long term fix. But battery unknowns can't easily be determined unless you try upgrading the software first.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Just an update guys; The dealer replaced the IMA battery module, and catalyst and it was all covered under the extended coverage. I really lucked out on that one.
My car drives and behaves normally now, and the mileage has increased back up to pre-repair levels, so good to go for now...
Michael.
 

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Hi Mikie,
You must be one of the few other Insights I see out here.. I commute from Dublin to Pleasanton (not far!) and occasionily down
to Silicon Valley. I just got a new IMA battery from Honda too. I have an early 2000 5speed with 100.3K. Which dealer did you
take it to? I took it to Dublin Honda and they were great. $0 to me!
Gary
Dublin, CA
Little Red.. formally Wayne Gerdes' Little Red Beauty
 

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Hi Mikie,
You must be one of the few other Insights I see out here.. I commute from Dublin to Pleasanton (not far!) and occasionily down
to Silicon Valley. I just got a new IMA battery from Honda too. I have an early 2000 5speed with 100.3K. Which dealer did you
take it to? I took it to Dublin Honda and they were great. $0 to me!
Gary
Dublin, CA
Little Red.. formally Wayne Gerdes' Little Red Beauty
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Gary; I got the warr work done at Walnut Creek Honda. I had a bad experience at the Dublin dealer when I purchased new plugs for my car there. They would not give me the specs for the torque on the new plugs-yeah after buying them there! I had a long history of paid service work done at Dublin for previous Honda vehicles I owned-so being very angry about the whole situation-I never went back.
The Walnut Creek people really treated me well with shuttle rides from and back after the repairs. I even noticed that they put fuel in my car after they road tested it-yeah-WOW.
I'll keep an eye out for you (conferm, your car is red) as I commute down the infamous (skull & cross bones) I-680 heading to downtown San Jose.
 

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Hi Mike,
Yes, my car is RED... and I'll be hypermiling in the slow lane! Execpt for the HOV commuter lane going down
the backside of the Sunol grade if the slow lanes are slow..
Humm.. I should probably change the plugs, what was the torque spec? I have the manuals, I can look it up...
I need to look at the head to see which ones I need...
Maybe Dublin improved after you complained! They were good to me. Good free shuttle now. And nice NEW
building.
Gary
Dublin
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Gary; The torque is 17 LBS-FT, and put on a small amount of anti-seize compound on the threads prior to installing.
my car has the "B" plug and calls for replacement @ 110K. I changed mine @ 114K and the old plugs still looked like new.
I have 136K on the clock now and if this car is anything like my previous Hondas it should go at least another 100K.
Michael.
 

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Re: IMA & "check" engine lights lit - warranty repair

My 2001 Insight (cvt) started grumbling "somewhere" on the
front passenger side when going into gear, and "clunking"
when first starting and when shutting off, so yesterday
afternoon my wife got into her 2003 Insight and the two
of us headed to the local Honda dealer (75 miles away...).

While enroute she called me to say her IMA light
had just come on (but not the "check engine one).
We continued to the dealership and dropped off her
car, using mine to make the trip back.

The bad news: the dealer just called this morning to say
they've got to replace the battery and controller.

The great news: full warranty. (80,000 miles). Oh, I
asled if they could hold onto and give me the old battery.
Afraid not.

The medium news: out of service, probably until Friday.
We miss him. Sniff

Hip hip hooray!

(Anyone have suggestions as to what to look for in my
own 2001 Insight regarding that grumble and kerchunk?)
Thanks.
 
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