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Discussion Starter #1
I bought a 2000 Insight #846 with a salvage title and 82,000 miles in October 2005. The damage appears pretty minor: wrinkled bumper plastic, front body panels don’t fit quite right and have odd fasteners on them. The A/C condenser in front of the radiator is slightly bent but doesn’t leak. I don’t have any problems with the front end.
The problem is with the IMA battery.
For background info, I was getting about 58 mpg with my commute and job traveling. I was keeping my tires at 40 psi, they were almost bald. MT 5 speed, A/C. Lifetime mpg for this car was 55 before I bought it.
I had a flat (of course) and bought new tires all around, Toyo Eclipse P175/65, inflated to 44 psi cold.
Then my mpg went down to about 52. Because of the new tires, maybe. Bald tires have less rolling resistance.
Then a week later my IMA light came on, and the CEL also. I had 5 recals that week. They weren’t ordinary recals, the SOC would go from about 80% down to two bars, then in the next 5 minutes up to about 50%, then up to full charge in less than a minute. Mileage went down to 44 mpg. The odometer is at 93,000 now.
I read the DTCs using the “blinking lights” method. The IMA showed code 77 (P1447 - Battery Module Deterioration). The CEL showed code 41 (A/F sensor) and 69 (IMA System Malfunction)
I figured I didn’t have anything to lose by taking it to my local Honda Dealer to get a quote, especially after the warranty extension in CA. They said I need a new battery module, and both control modules. They will cover the control modules under the extended warranty, but not the battery! Battery will cost $3212 + $183 labor + $232 tax.
I searched around. I can get a salvaged battery for $850 (not rebuilt) with 6-month warranty. I called another local Honda Dealer in a nearby town, they want $3946 for a new battery, parts only! Then I called Honda Auto Customer Service at 1-800-999-1009 and they told me there is NO warranty coverage on a salvaged vehicle.

I’m thinking I should jump at the chance to get a new battery and two control modules for $3628. What do you think?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Both my feet are still on the ground at the prospect of spending $3600 :?
What if I get only the two control modules replaced (and the A/F sensor) and see how much improvement I get? Is the code 77 a SURE sign that the battery is deteriorating? If the battery is deteriorating, will it damage the new control modules?
I've got lots of questions :)
 

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AFAIK and I'm confident of this, no damage can occur to the control modules from a failing 144v battery.

When both hands are in your pockets, clenched in a fist tightly gripping your hard earned money its harder to jump. :p

HTH! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
OK, now my IMA battery is completely belly up. :( This morning it had another recal (the 8th recal in two weeks), the SoC came back to full in 5 minutes, then the CEL light again. With NO ASST and NO CHRG at all! First time that's happened. Can I drive it indefinitely in this condition? :?:

My dealer has ordered the two modules and I'll get them replaced first under warranty. Then I'll address the IMA battery problem. First I'll ask Honda to see if they'll replace it even if I have a salvage title. (After all they replaced the two modules under warranty, why not the battery too?) Then I'll look for a refurbished IMA for less then the $3600 that my dealer wants (parts & labor & tax.) Then, last resort, I'll bite the bullit, pay the money and get the new IMA from the dealer.

Does anyone know where I can look for a refurbished IMA battery? :?: I searched the forum with no luck.

Thanks!
- Jim
 

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Jim-

AFAIK, no one is selling refurbished battery packs.
[mod note: all Honda replacement IMA packs are "remanufactured"]

You could try to find a used one. One possible source:

http://www.haprecycling.com/

Good luck.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yeah, I called HAP in Sacramento. They want $850, I think, for a used 2001 IMA battery. :? Three month guarantee as I recall. But that's not a rebuilt battery, only a used one.

Question: Does a used 2004/2005 IMA battery pack fit in a 2000 Insight? Maybe I can find a newer used one? :?:
 

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shewb said:
Question: Does a used 2004/2005 IMA battery pack fit in a 2000 Insight? Maybe I can find a newer used one? :?:
Maybe and maybe not. The 2000-2004 Insight specifications all list 6.5ah batteries where 2005-2006 lists 6.0ah batteries.
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=3730

I can't imagine it would be that much different, or maybe they just derated it, but perhaps someone with a newer service manual than mine could look to see if there are any mentions of a change in the battery pack.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
UPDATE

OK, my dealer finally got the BCM & MCM in and I had them replaced. No cost to me :D
They reset everything, of course, in the course of replacing the modules, and that afternoon, ASST & CHRG worked again, for about 5 miles. Then the IMA & CEL both came on. My battery is still on its way out.
Last week I installed a Highway Blaster horn, because I'm tired of being nearly run off the road by SUVs with their windows closed that can't hear my beep-beep "Road Runner" horn.
In the process, I must have done a reset myself, because after the IMA battery went from NO SoC to max in 5 minutes, I was able to drive my 35 mile commute at 61 mpg with everything working again.
So if I'm REEALLY careful, I can baby the IMA along, and keep it from croaking, until the used battery I ordered arrives next week.
I'm paying $800 + $100 shipping for a 2002 used battery pack complete with all modules. It has 36000 miles on it, in class "A" condition (whatever that means)
I'll keep y'all posted on how the work goes. Don't worry, I'll be VERY careful :shock: :shock: :shock:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
My used IMA battery arrived today. It's lighter weight than I thought. The charge reads zero with my voltmeter. Are there any checks I can do on the used battery before installation to tell if it's any good :?:

There's no modules attached to the top of the used battery. So I won't have anything with any potential value leftover after I'm done. :cry:

I'm expecting this job to take more than a couple hours, so I'll wait until this weekend to tackle it. Should I take some photos for the record :?:

- Jim
 

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0 volts is probably bad. If you have any means by which to charge it up some before putting it in it might be a good idea.

Yes take pictures.
 

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The place you measured the voltage was probably the two main cables that go the the MPI module. The voltage there will always be 0 with the main breaker and the precharge and main relays off. The only way to measure battery voltage on a disconnected pack is to turn on the main switch, and then find the output terminals from the pack. I dont have a photo of the points, but I suspect that Happ has tested the pack in order to give it the class "A" rating, and to do the test, the pack was probably charged.
I would just swap it and let the IMA do it's thing. I agree with John, that there is little chance of damaging the modules.
I recently pulled my pack my self, and wrote a short discription at:
http://99mpg.com/TheBestHybridmix/attachmentplaterip/
Good luck with the used pack, and be careful, it can kill you like the sticker says.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks, Mike, for the replies. I started the new thread because the topic changed from the "warranty coverage" subject to the "installing a used battery" subject. So I'll post my updates there.
 
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