Honda Insight Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Day before yesterday I noticed that my IMA light came on in my 2006 cvt Insight. Loss of power for climbing hills, bucking under decceleration. There was no charge indicated in the SOC gauge. Then before I got home, the check engine came on and the 12v battery light came on too.

I took the car to Greentec and they tested it and said that it had to have a new battery. Their deal was $1395 including tax and installation. One year warranty. i called to another place in DFW that said they were getting out of the Honda business and just sell for Toyota. I asked for the best deal they could do. They ultimately said $900 installed no warranty. If I wanted to keep the core, another $250.

I guess that is a good deal, and there is my problem.

I read up everywhere online and came up with maybe the 12v battery is weak. It was said that that can cause the BOC or something to shut down. i charged it overnight and then as per the recommendations I read, I disconnected the 12v for about 10 seconds, reconnected it and started the car. The dash light were out and the charging was in the green. It charged fully in a short amount of driving and is still showing a charge. (BTW, something I read also said something about if this doesn't work, rev the engine at 3500rpms for a bit and that can make something kick in. And I read something about driving down a quiet radway and turn off the engine and after a couple of second, turn it back on. .....anyone know anything about this. Is it a wives tale?)

There must have been SOMETHING wrong, so do I take a chance that it will last for a while? I have only had the car for a few months and don't know if the IMA battery had ever been replaced. The car has 128,000 miles on it. The $900 deal will be gone very soon. What to do, what to do.

Mick
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,333 Posts
Discharge and grid charge before buying a new battery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,140 Posts
hmm... Kind of difficult to suggest what's most likely to be right for you without more info, yet I don't have the patience to wait for and listen to more info anyway...

Here's some thoughts:

First impression - besides check your trouble codes - is that you at least need to read up on grid charging and discharging and do something like that before you buy a different pack.

Second or third impression is that I wonder how much you drive the car, et al, and wonder whether bypassing the pack entirely might be the way to go. The car would have less power, no autostop, etc., but you wouldn't have to worry about the pack any longer. And it's virtually free...

Another idea: If you do decide getting a replacement pack is the way to go, saving a few hundred on the no warranty pack from a vendor that won't be doing Honda business in future doesn't seem like a good deal. But I don't know your financial situation... I'd think most everyone who buys a pack would be better off spending the extra $ on a vendor that at least has some skin in the game, that provides some assurance of future recourse should something go wrong... Replacement packs can be such a crap shoot in the first place.

Personally, I don't see that you're at the replacement pack point yet, but forgoing a replacement means you've gotta do some more research and mess with your pack yourself. Most people around here would say that you at least need to buy a 'grid charger' and do that first, and they'd also say that having a grid charger is necessary anyway, regardless of whether you're nursing an old pack back to functionality or maintaining a new one...

I read up everywhere online and came up with maybe the 12v battery is weak. It was said that that can cause the BOC or something to shut down. i charged it overnight and then as per the recommendations I read, I disconnected the 12v for about 10 seconds, reconnected it and started the car. The dash light were out and the charging was in the green. It charged fully in a short amount of driving and is still showing a charge. (BTW, something I read also said something about if this doesn't work, rev the engine at 3500rpms for a bit and that can make something kick in. And I read something about driving down a quiet radway and turn off the engine and after a couple of second, turn it back on. .....anyone know anything about this. Is it a wives tale?)
Your 12V could be weak, could have been weak, but most likely it got that way because your IMA pack is on the fritz. The idea that you charged the 12V and reset, then the IMA pack charged in fairly short time - yet without getting another IMA trouble light - suggests that most likely your pack is imbalanced. You've now got maybe 20% of usable capacity at your disposal, which is generally enough. But you're also likely going to have problems again in the not too distant future, your pack isn't up to snuff now, etc.

The revving idea - you can raise engine speed to 3000-3500 and hold it there, and the pack will charge if it's not full already. Doesn't really apply in your situation: your pack charged on its own and I assume it went to full - as full as it could get, that is.

Turning the car off and on is only relevant if you're the one edge case where that allegedly helped... I can say that chances of that are close to nil...

Anyway, hopefully someone else will chime in and help walk you through steps to getting a grid charger and discharger and doing a light, full pack recondition. You can search and find a zillion threads where this has already been done for others, though.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,861 Posts
Drive it more and try not to use assist as much. Give the system a chance to fully charge the IMA battery if it is willing to take a charge. If you don't have a charger.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
511 Posts
Get a code reader and look into the codes before throwing any money at it.

The one and only time my IMA light went on was for bad ground straps - easy and cheap to fix.

Have you tried grid charging?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Ima

I have been in the market for a grid charger for some time, but have just been busy with other things. I have more inc incentive now, so I will get one toute suite. I have read a lot about it and I know basically how to use it and what it does. No sure how often though.

The only code I had was a P1644, which I understand is fairly serious. So much so that the shops said the battery had to be replaced. Of course they want to sell a battery. And if they were really technically savvy they would know that it might not be so serious.... if they didn't want to sell a battery.

I just got home from driving all over Dallas today, with no problem, so I have been busy. In just a bit I will check the codes again and see if P1644 is still there or gone.

the 12v could be weak..... but it is less than a year old. I had it check and they said it was good.

I did try to take it easy on the assist and will continue to do so until I get a charger.

Let's say I do only have 20% of capacity in my battery. If I go through the routine of charging with a grid charger and discharging as is recommended, what kind of % could I hope ti achieve? And how often should I do it? Once a month twice a year?

Thanks to all of you for your inputs. I really appreciate it. Mick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
511 Posts
Do a search on P1644 here on this thread. Also found an external source on P1644 Honda: https://www.engine-codes.com/p1644_honda.html

Seems like it's not an IMA battery issue, but rather an issue with one of the computers, either the MCM itself or one of the computers that shares a signal to/from it.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
10,771 Posts
I'm assuming all engine/body grounds etc are in excellent condition, 12v battery is good and charged. OK.

P1644

This is a communication problem between the MCM inside the IMA compartment,
and the ECM at the front of the car in the passenger footwell.

The signals on the relevant lines are very slow and hardy, so it's most likely a wiring issue.
The signal passes through several multipin connectors on it's way between them.

My main suspect is the one behind the seat bulkhead under the crossmember.
There is also an important ground connection there.
Remove the crossmember find the bundle of connectors, check for dampness etc, unplug and replug the connectors, check the ground there as well.

Does the code go/stay away once system reset? Report back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Dampness

That dampness is interesting. I have a little problem that I have yet to fix. When there is a hard rain...... like several times this spring here in north Texas, my driver's seat belt gets wet. I do not feel wetness until I pull out the belt to put it on. This wetness is way down on the belt and is really soaking there as far as I can pull it out. This suggests that the water is pooling in the cavity that houses the belt. That is in the same area that might effect the wiring connectors. So, I wonder.....

Also I will check the codes this morning.

Thanks, Mick
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,861 Posts
Search "Wet seat belt" on the custom google search at the top/left of this page and all your questions will be answered.
(Video at 6:40 AM today also.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Dampness behind seat bulkhead

That dampness is interesting. I have a little problem that I have yet to fix. When there is a hard rain...... like several times this spring here in north Texas, my driver's seat belt gets wet. I do not feel wetness until I pull out the belt to put it on. This wetness is way down on the belt and is really soaking there as far as I can pull it out. This suggests that the water is pooling in the cavity that houses the belt. That is in the same area that might effect the wiring connectors. So, I wonder.....

Also I will check the codes this morning.

Thanks, Mick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Sorry about reposting

Sorry about re-posting the last one. it didn't look like it had gone through.

That being said, I used the OBDII a bit ago, and there are no codes present.

The next thing is to get a grid charger and go through the routine. Is there a way to tell if it is effective? What sort of capacity increase can I expect, or is increase in MPG the only indicator of success.

Mick
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,333 Posts
Sorry about re-posting the last one. it didn't look like it had gone through.

That being said, I used the OBDII a bit ago, and there are no codes present.

The next thing is to get a grid charger and go through the routine. Is there a way to tell if it is effective? What sort of capacity increase can I expect, or is increase in MPG the only indicator of success.

Mick
The car will function as intended.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Function

I have never read exactly what the intended function is. Is it precise enough to use as a guide to battery condition. Where do I find that information? Mick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,140 Posts
I have never read exactly what the intended function is. Is it precise enough to use as a guide to battery condition. Where do I find that information?
Sounds like you need to track down the cause of the P1644 before you think too hard about your pack condition. But in general, most people tell whether their grid charge/discharge reconditioning is a success simply by not having the typical 'pack malfunction behaviors' - such as the BAT gauge dropping to the bottom quickly ('neg recal') and then seemingly recharging fast (like going from near the bottom to the top in a minute or two rather than over some time); no more IMA lights; charge and assist seem to work; etc... There's more definitive stuff, finer metrics and benchmarks, but one probably needs an OBDIIC&C gauge to tap into those. Either that and/or you'd need to watch pack voltage under load with a DMM and check voltage tap voltages at a number of intervals to see how well they're staying balanced...
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top