[Fred]

Thought one or two of you with an Insight CVT might have an interest in this.

Yesterday, using the PA Turnpike I made a run from the Poconos to Willow Grove PA. The following are excerpts of a voice log I kept on the way down. (I've learned to carry a small tape recorder as well as a digital camera in the car at all times now, - every time I'm on the road)

On this run to Willow Grove, only the driver was in the car and no A/C was used. For the most part speed was kept between 45 MPH and 60 MPH.

LOG

070531.0830 / PA TURNPIKE RUN TO WILLOW GROVE
070531.0924 / SPEED 055 MPH / 037.50 MILES / 082.2 MPG / AT LEHIGH TUNNEL
070531.0937 / SPEED 055 MPH / 043.50 MILES / 082.2 MPG / ALPO WATER TOWER IN SIGHT
070531.0940 / SPEED 055 MPH / 045.90 MILES / 081.3 MPG / PASSING ALLENTOWN PLAZA
070531.0955 / SPEED 049 MPH / 058.20 MILES / 080.0 MPG / PASSING QUAKERTOWN EXIT
070531.1010 / SPEED 050 MPH / 072.80 MILES / 082.0 MPG / COMING UP ON LANSDALE
070531.1022 / SPEED 052 MPH / 083.30 MILES / 081.7 MPG / AT TURN OFF TO NJ
070531.1036 / SPEED 000 MPH / 093.60 MILES / 082.2 MPG / AT WILLOW GROVE EXIT AND OFF PA TURNPIKE
070531.1614 / SPEED 000 MPH / 198.70 MIILES / 068.30 MPG.*

END OF LOG

If you have a CVT, if I can get MPG readings like this - so can you.
* You migh note that on the return run I had a passinger and associated luggage.
* The A/C (on Economy and set for 67 F) was used all the way back due to the heat.
* The return run was by the way of PA Roue 611 (aka "the river road"). Those of you in NE Pennsylvania, if you've never used this road, especially in the Fall of the year, the run is worth it.

Fred / Proud Owner of "The Silver Bullet"

 

[b1shmu63]

Nice! The 5 speed has recieved so much attention, it is nice to see someone with a CVT, (which make up the largest group), doing some hypermiling.

 

[merigayle]

hey fred, can i get some driving lessons?

last weekend i had my best mpg's yet. I went from PA to VA (250 miles each way) and got 61.1mpg. That was my highest by FAR! Now i have more to aspire for.

 

[dberns]

I decided to take some time and max out as best I could, getting 70 miles/gallon, CVT, doing
the run from (near) Lansing, Michigan,
to NYC.

(I cheated a bit by usually
hanging in the 55 mph range
and not using the a/c. I ain't
doing that again....)

photo proof:
http://www.panix.com/~dannyb/images/mich-to-nyc.jpg

 

[Scott]

Hard to belive averaging 80+ MPG for over 200 miles in a CVT. My best is mid 60's and that's rare.

 

[Fred]

Hard to belive averaging 80+ MPG for over 200 miles in a CVT. My best is mid 60's and that's rare.

Try slowing down - if my CVT can deliver mileage as reported, so can yours.

Fred / Proud Owner of "The Silver Bullet"

 

[salty1]

Hard to belive averaging 80+ MPG for over 200 miles in a CVT. My best is mid 60's and that's rare.

Considering I have never got more than high fifties in my 2002 on a trip, I find it hard to believe also.

 

[Billy]

Hi Salty, Do you have the OEM Bridgestone tires? Are you using 0-20 synthetic oil? Do you inflate tires to at least 44 lbs? Lastly, do you employ basic techniques such as slow to moderate steady speed, looking WAY ahead to the next stop light, momentum, keeping your battery SOC full, accelerating slowly, seldom using the brakes, coasting, etc???

My lifetime MPG is 89.3, and in the summer 100+ is common on long trips. And lately, I've been averaging over 88 mpg around town. (5 speed Insight)

Fred's results are not surprising, if one pays attention and learns "the stuff" 8)

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Salty's low MPG woes are documented in older threads here. Its attributed to a high percentage of city driving cycle and very short trips.

C'mon Salty :!: No need to start an argument or be jealous. After all your _time_ per tank is probably record setting.

 

[Scott]

Hi Salty, Do you have the OEM Bridgestone tires? Are you using 0-20 synthetic oil? Do you inflate tires to at least 44 lbs? Lastly, do you employ basic techniques such as slow to moderate steady speed, looking WAY ahead to the next stop light, momentum, keeping your battery SOC full, accelerating slowly, seldom using the brakes, coasting, etc???

My lifetime MPG is 89.3, and in the summer 100+ is common on long trips. And lately, I've been averaging over 88 mpg around town. (5 speed Insight)

Fred's results are not surprising, if one pays attention and learns "the stuff" 8)

I can't speak for salty, but in my case, OEM Bridgestones @45psi, Mobil 1 0W-20, SOC always within 2-3 bars from top, and all other hypermiling "techniques" are used religously. Billy, your 5 speed also has lean burn which as I'm sure you are aware, CVT's do not. I have taken numerous highway trips at speeds similar to Fred's, and never approached 80+ mpg for over 200 miles. It would be interesting to hear from some other CVT owners as to attaining 80+mpg @55 mph over 200 or more miles.

 

[salty1]

I don't believe anyone can average 80+mpg woth an Insight automatic no matter what they do.
How come even Honda never claimed the Insights get 80+MPG? As we all know, manufactures claims of mpgs are always high.
I know mpg's change by driving habits, how often you drive the car and a host of other factors, but even so, I maintain healthy skepticism about an Honda CVT getting over 80 mpg for the life of the car.
ps I have spoken with my dealer, and they tell me that the other people who own these cars with insights have got somewhere in the fifties mpgwith a 5 speed, and that do considerable highway driving.
New England weather is different from Arizona weather for example, but 100 MPG or more, well, all I can say is good luck.

 

[Fred]

... I don't believe anyone can average 80+mpg woth an Insight automatic no matter what they do.
... How come even Honda never claimed the Insights get 80+MPG? As we all know, manufactures claims of mpgs are always high.
... I know mpg's change by driving habits, how often you drive the car and a host of other factors, but even so, I maintain healthy skepticism about an Honda CVT getting over 80 mpg for the life of the car.

A "healthy skepticism" is a good thing and I for one am a firm believer in such a mind set but I tell you here and now, in an Insight CVT you can average in excess of eighty MPG - for a given run - and I'm not the only CVT owner who has more than once reported such MPG readings in these little cars.

As for Honda's advertising, you already probably know that Honda did very little advertising with regard to the Insight, and that to has repeatedly been reported here and probably elsewhere as well but they did advertise I believe 66 MPG. Do you really believe there aren't drivers who are getting twenty or twenty five percent better MPG readings than the advertised "average?"

As for my " Honda CVT getting over 80 mpg for the life of the car", I never said that. Right now I'm averaging 54.2 LMPG (and it's on the way up) a significant improvement from the 53 MPG average over just this past Winter. I don't do a lot of driving with this car (I've had it for just over a year now and went over 10,000 miles the other week) and I do know the roads I travel; about what to expect going down that road and about when to expect it. ... For a given road I know for example that to achieve what I view to be a good run, at a given point or points along the way, I know about what kind of MPG reading I should have as I pass that point. Don't understand? For example, For the run from my home to Wilkes-Barre, it's about a 25 miles and if I want to have an MPG reading in the low to mid-seventies at the end of the run (which now happens a lot) when I cross the river on the way to Wilkes-Barre, I should already have an MPG reading of 60. If I have less than 60 MPG as I cross the river, odds are I will not be in the seventies by the time I reach Wilkes-Barre. If I am reading 60 MPG as I cross the river (which is about as good as I've ever done - so far) odds are I will be in the mid to low seventies by the time I get to my destination. Try it and see if if works for you.

Salty, driving these little cars, getting the most out of them is NOT like driving a "big" American car. If you're interested in repeatedly achieving high MPG readings, as you mentioned, a host of factors are involved and among these are slower speeds and knowing the road(s) you're using.

Hope this helps.

Fred / Proud Owner of "The Silver Bullet"



I should have an MPG read

 

[salty1]

Thanks Fred for the explanation.
The only sure thing is that if you and others are getting 80 mpg or more(1 person said he got 100mpg at times with a 5 speed), then the people who live in New England who average in the fifites(and me lower) are doing something wrong and/or you guys know exactly when to put your foot on and off the accelerator and brakes 100% of the time to get the mileage you do.

 

[Scott]

Not being a physics major, i can only assume that a certain amount of energy (HP) is required to maintain a vehicle at any constant speed. Common sense tells me that applying more energy (throttle) will result in a speed increase while reducing power will result in a reduction of speed. Therefore, I fail to understand how 2 Insight CVT's traveling at a constant 55 mph can vary by as much as 25 mpg. I can understand a large difference in mpg in a city type driving due to driving technique, but on a highway how much "skill" is involved in maintaining a car's speed at 55mph? Shouldn't 2 nearly identical vehicles fuel usage be very close under the same conditions and at the same speed? I'm interested as to how I can drive more efficiently at a steady 55 mph in order to achieve 80+ mpg.

 

[Billy]

Hi Scott: You have valid statements. Re: your 55 mph steady cruise scenario, I can just say this: Some additional factors are; warm summer daytime temps increase mpg, keep A/C off, experiment with lane positioning (stay out of the ruts, drive up higher on the crown), drive with just stocking feet (increases foot sensitivity to the gas pedal), concrete surfaces allow slightly better FE than asphalt, headwinds or tailwinds?, maybe increase tire pressure 4 more psi, maybe decrease speed to 53 and check the results.......

 

[Dougie]

There is no such thing as "advertized" MPG. All cars are run through a specific driving cycle (lots of debate about how realistic it is), and the results are the official EPA mileage estimate. That's what the manufacturers quote. It's easy enough in a five-speed Insight to drive in a way that exceeds the EPA mileage, across a very wide range of conditions.

 

[ElectricTroy]

Not being a physics major, i can only assume that a certain amount of energy (HP) is required to maintain a vehicle at any constant speed.

And torque (rotational force). Without sufficient torque, the car isn't moving. For example if Insight had a taller 6th gear, that put the RPM somewhere around 1100, the car would not have enough torque to overcome the air resistance at 55mph. And it would slow down.

Common sense tells me that applying more energy (throttle) will result in a speed increase while reducing power will result in a reduction of speed. Therefore, I fail to understand how 2 Insight CVT's traveling at a constant 55 mph can vary by as much as 25 mpg.

- My MPG can vary a lot depending upon how I handle climbing small slopes. I can "press the pedal to the floor" and watch my MPG plummet to 50.

- Or, I can just "go with the flow" and let the car gradually slowdown and speed-up as the slopes climb & fall. That way my MPG hangs near 90.

The driving style has a huge impact.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Not being a physics major, i can only assume that a certain amount of energy (HP) is required to maintain a vehicle at any constant speed.

And torque (rotational force). Without sufficient torque, the car isn't moving. For example if Insight had a taller 6th gear, that put the RPM somewhere around 1100, the car would not have enough torque to overcome the air resistance at 55mph. And it would slow down..

HP IS torque / time.

Where the two get confused is in regard to at what point each value peaks in an internal combustion engine. Consult your vehicles power and torque graphs for the exceptions to my statement below:

Peak torque (twisting force) and therfore more seat of the pants scoot typically happens at 1/2 of peak HP where the most torque over time ocurrs. You can't have one without the other :!: :shock:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower

HTH!

 

[ElectricTroy]

It's possible to have lots of horsepower and very little torque (hence necessitating downshifting to a lower gear to, for example, accelerate).

That's the point I was trying to get across.

 

[Fred]

... (1 person said he got 100mpg at times with a 5 speed),
... the people ... who average in the fifites ... are doing something wrong ...

Based on my experiences so far with this CVT, that an individual with an Insight with a manual transmission says he got 100 MPG, he probably did - and he's probably not the only owner with such an Insight who has done this

As for those with CVT who are averaging "in the fifties" believe me when I say, I'm not the brightest guy in the world but if I can - at times - get MPG readings in the eighties or highter (and I have, more than once) so can you.

I've been in New England many times (New London etc) and it's not all that hilly. For what it's worth, when time and conditions allow, to get those higher MPG readings with your Insight, start off by just slowing down. Experience, time should show dramatic increases in MPG if you run along at fifty and sixty MPH.

When it comes to hills, if you don't already know it, these little cars are great - going down 'em but they're real dogs when it comes to climbing them. On the relatively level runs however, at fifty and sixty MPH (try more like fifty MPH and with the engine at about 2000 RPM indicated) from the view of MPG performance, these little Insights boarder close to fantastic when compared to the "belch-fire" v6 and v8 chromed tanks so many are still running around it; ever notice how many of them are for sale by owner and/or are in used car lots lately?

Fred / Proud Owner of "The Silver Bullet"