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Discussion Starter #1
I had posted late last fall in another thread I started about the issues I was having between the transmission synchro's and the battery pack. I had gotten the exhaust leak fixed and it has been fine. The car only has ~117,600 miles on it as I was mostly local driving and a telecommuter. I am able to work around the transmission for the most part by double-clutching but it will pop out on deceleration so it is more work to drive. But the holidays, work and just the general lack of enthusiasm right now kept me occupied elsewhere.

The other issue is the battery pack. Back in November 2015, I got a rebuilt pack from HybridRevolt.com and I opted for 9 Ah cells instead of the traditional 6.3(?) Ah cells. I installed a grid charger a year or so later to keep it topped. A year ago it threw the IMA light without the Check Engine. A top off charge and the light stayed out for a few months. It came back during the summer. It became harder and harder to keep it off and the DTC was 77. In late November, I decided to try going with some deep discharge/charge cycles to see if that would improve things. It did appear to make something of a difference and the pack will settle down to around 172 V after being off the charger a few hours. But the IMA light now comes on almost immediately as well as the Check Engine light. The DTC code at last check was now 78. At this point I am thinking at least one cell is completely out of whack.

When my Honda supplied pack died five years ago, I did not have a charger or any real knowledge other than to replace it. During the few weeks it took to get the replacement pack, it deteriorated so much that it tripped the 12 V system into cutting out leaving me to run on 12 V battery. I solved that problem by switching the pack off and running entirely without IMA. That is my biggest fear right now that I could be driving and have the 12 V warning light come on. I will keep topping off the pack to hopefully keep that from happening. I carry a small 10mm socket wrench in case I am forced to pull over and turn the pack off but that fear is with me constantly.

I have been looking for a 2017-2018 Prius c and I may have found one at a local dealer. That will certainly relieve the stress of on me at this point from driving the hobbled Insight but I am wondering what exactly could be wrong with the pack. Any further deep discharges seem pointless. Plus having opted for 9 Ah cells appears to make stick replacement problematic. I am guessing that there are only a few cells that are really ill.
 

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Whats the warranty on the 144v battery?

Ask yourself what takes precedence at this point in time of your life : if telecommuting and short commutes are going to be a long term thing for you, maybe it’s time to let go of the G1 and get the Prius. The G1 is an uncompromising tool for maximum MPG, or a mechanical wonder, but that’s really it. Because it’s a niche car, expect niche problems and the costs associated with ownership. You have to really love and respect the car for what it is, and if that love and motivation isn’t there anymore, maybe giving it to a loving home is more appropriate.

It’s my only car now, and of all things going on in my life, it’s the one thing that never failed me, and always gives its best when at times I don’t reciprocate it. 500k miles later and just by addressing what it needs when I can get to it has been a blessing for me, as it’s by far the longest living car I’ve owned so far. I accept It for what it is and do what I can, even when it can get frustrating at times. But i will ride it until I’m dead or it’s dead.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Whats the warranty on the 144v battery?

Ask yourself what takes precedence at this point in time of your life : if telecommuting and short commutes are going to be a long term thing for you, maybe it’s time to let go of the G1 and get the Prius. The G1 is an uncompromising tool for maximum MPG, or a mechanical wonder, but that’s really it. Because it’s a niche car, expect niche problems and the costs associated with ownership. You have to really love and respect the car for what it is, and if that love and motivation isn’t there anymore, maybe giving it to a loving home is more appropriate.
I had a two year warranty on it so there is no option there other than to either attack it myself or replace it with a rebuilt.

I love the car but I agree that at this point in my life, turn 59 in June, do I have the time and patience to do not only the battery pack but the transmission as well. I will have had the car 20 years on April 28, 2021. It has served me well. I was lucky to be able to do a lot of remote work so I was not doing the 48 mile round trip daily.

Goal #1 at the moment is getting a replacement vehicle which I hope to be a Prius c as it is a nice small car too. Then the Insight will be in the garage without plates and I can decide the next step.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The other issue is the battery pack. Back in November 2015, I got a rebuilt pack from HybridRevolt.com and I opted for 9 Ah cells instead of the traditional 6.3(?) Ah cells. I installed a grid charger a year or so later to keep it topped. A year ago it threw the IMA light without the Check Engine. A top off charge and the light stayed out for a few months. It came back during the summer. It became harder and harder to keep it off and the DTC was 77. In late November, I decided to try going with some deep discharge/charge cycles to see if that would improve things. It did appear to make something of a difference and the pack will settle down to around 172 V after being off the charger a few hours. But the IMA light now comes on almost immediately as well as the Check Engine light. The DTC code at last check was now 78. At this point I am thinking at least one cell is completely out of whack.
At the office, I was able to move my car to my preferred parking spot where I can plug in. IMA and Check Engine light are on and I hooked up the grid charger. Voltage reading was 172 V. Really has me puzzled as to what the IMA diagnostics are finding fault with. I keep pulling the IMA fuse to reset the system and have it recalibrate. It only takes a few minutes for it to throw the light. I will not be able to get my home made ODBII jumper plug until Thursday in order to recheck the DTC's.
 

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Are your DTC 77 and 78 the 'flash' codes, for IMA light? If so, I read those as being 1447 and 1449. Have never really been too sure about 1447, but in general they're roughly equivalent. The P1449-78 means that, after the pack has been found to be 'empty' - which means simply at least one cell truly empty, 'neg recal', BATT gauge plummeting to bottom - it can't be charged at least about 10% of total capacity without reaching 'full' - which means something like at least one cell reaching full, or at least a stick-pair reaching full. It's severe charge imbalance...

I think most severe charge imbalance is due to at least one cell having faster self discharge than others. It just becomes impossible to keep the one or more cells charged to the level of the others - and they end up being near empty all the time...

This code, I think, tends to hang around - I know I've had a hard time getting it to clear. So once you get it, once the BCM sees the problematic sequence of events (empty cell, voltage for a tap tanking, it tries to charge but then can't charge at least 10% without reaching full first, you get the IMA light and P1449-78 code) - once it goes through this sequence I don't think the full sequence needs to happen again for the code to hang around... Not sure how that works. I just don't think you can always 'just' clear the code by say pulling a fuse or 12V neg cable and get more or less normal behavior...

A couple other thoughts:

-A 2015 Revolt pack probably is among those that had problematic cells. Early-ish aftermarket packs don't handle deep discharging well, and they don't handle grid charging very well, mainly prolonged grid charging of the 'balancing' type, where you try to overcharge most cells in order to get low cells caught up...

-oh yeah: Have you considered just bypassing the pack/IMA? - turn the switch OFF, pull the connectors that go to the BCM. You should be able to drive fine, without 12V charging worries, if you do this. The car's not that bad with the pack bypassed, totally drive-able... There's variations on this theme, such as removing the pack entirely and installing a bypass pigtail, to reduce weight; an Arduino mod that alleviates some of the warbles; installing an alternative 12V power supply so you can then get rid of ALL the stuff in the back, etc etc...
 

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No matter what happens with the G1, I suspect you will like the C. I drove one for a couple of years and found it to be a wonderfully fun little car. Well built and a joy to drive. I’ve thought about returning to one, in fact. A nice, upright driving posture, easy in and out. like the TARDIS, bigger inside than out.

One thing, though, if you have to choose between speeding up or slowing down to get out of trouble always go with slowing down!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Are your DTC 77 and 78 the 'flash' codes, for IMA light? If so, I read those as being 1447 and 1449. Have never really been too sure about 1447, but in general they're roughly equivalent. The P1449-78 means that, after the pack has been found to be 'empty' - which means simply at least one cell truly empty, 'neg recal', BATT gauge plummeting to bottom - it can't be charged at least about 10% of total capacity without reaching 'full' - which means something like at least one cell reaching full, or at least a stick-pair reaching full. It's severe charge imbalance...

I think most severe charge imbalance is due to at least one cell having faster self discharge than others. It just becomes impossible to keep the one or more cells charged to the level of the others - and they end up being near empty all the time...

This code, I think, tends to hang around - I know I've had a hard time getting it to clear. So once you get it, once the BCM sees the problematic sequence of events (empty cell, voltage for a tap tanking, it tries to charge but then can't charge at least 10% without reaching full first, you get the IMA light and P1449-78 code) - once it goes through this sequence I don't think the full sequence needs to happen again for the code to hang around... Not sure how that works. I just don't think you can always 'just' clear the code by say pulling a fuse or 12V neg cable and get more or less normal behavior...
Judging from the voltage I see after the pack has been sitting a day or two, 172 V, it would appear to be one or two cells are severely flawed. At worst, two sticks if two cells are bad. The discharge/charge cycles seem to have brought the rest of the sticks back to life and it holds power quite well. The last discharge cycle I did took quite some time to perform as the pack really held on pumping out power. Unfortunately, without a spare set of wheels, the time I need to determine the problematic sticks would leave me off the road. It is definitely something I want to examine before making the final determination on the disposition of the car.

A couple other thoughts:

-A 2015 Revolt pack probably is among those that had problematic cells. Early-ish aftermarket packs don't handle deep discharging well, and they don't handle grid charging very well, mainly prolonged grid charging of the 'balancing' type, where you try to overcharge most cells in order to get low cells caught up...
Most likely what has happened in my case. It was around the two year mark that I felt I should get a grid charger as it seemed the pack was starting to produce less power than when I first got it. I had not realized that the cells used in third-party rebuilds had issues compared to Honda supplied batteries. If I knew back in 2015 what I know now, I would have immediately gotten a charger and looked to recharge and rebalance. Might have gotten enough extra time to get me to where I am now though LOL.

-oh yeah: Have you considered just bypassing the pack/IMA? - turn the switch OFF, pull the connectors that go to the BCM. You should be able to drive fine, without 12V charging worries, if you do this. The car's not that bad with the pack bypassed, totally drive-able... There's variations on this theme, such as removing the pack entirely and installing a bypass pigtail, to reduce weight; an Arduino mod that alleviates some of the warbles; installing an alternative 12V power supply so you can then get rid of ALL the stuff in the back, etc etc...
When my previous Honda installed pack failed in 2015, I kept running on it while I arranged to order the replacement pack. About a week or so after the IMA light came on, I was driving and suddenly the 12 V warning came on. Luckily close to home. At that point, I was mentally fried, I took a guess and turned of the main switch. The 12 V warning went out and the car still ran though I had to use the conventional starter to get going. The engine was a bit rougher without the IMA to provide power to dampen the vibrations and acceleration was, of course, not great. But it did run and kept me going to two weeks until I swapped in the replacement pack. That is certainly an option but this time I have ability to keep the pack topped up with the grid charger so it should, in theory, get to the point of pulling down the 12 V system. Funny thing is last night as I parked, I pulled the IMA fuse for a moment. Did nothing further. This morning the system recalibrated a few times but did not produce the IMA light. It is quite variable on when it decides there has been a total battery failure. If topping off keeps me going until I can consummate a deal on a replacement vehicle then I can live with that. I'll continue to double-clutch and charge for an hour just to stay on the road.

The one BIG problem with leaving the pack off or bypassing is I live in New York and have annual inspections. Due to COVID, we were granted extensions and I pushed mine off from June 2020 to last November when things were still good enough with the vehicle. Right now though, if the Check Engine light is on, I cannot pass. I could fudge it I imagine if had to by pumping up the pack and clearing the code just before the check as it would stay off long enough to pass. If this was 2025, then it would not matter because after 25 years, a car no longer needs to pass the emissions check. Just the safety check.

If I had the time, money and inclination, I might even consider playing around with a Lithium conversion. But first I really want to see how many sticks are really flawed. If my suspicions are correct and the majority of the pack is good now, then replacing the defective sticks might just make sense to keep it going a bit longer. If I am looking at a total overhaul, then I will have to take a pass.
 

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Judging from the voltage I see after the pack has been sitting a day or two, 172 V, it would appear to be one or two cells are severely flawed. At worst, two sticks if two cells are bad...
Yeah, it's pretty much impossible to spot a few cells that are charged much lower than the rest, looking at total voltage. The voltage difference at cell-level between near full charge and near empty can be almost nothing, like at most only about 0.2V. Your typical DMM probably wouldn't even register that. It's even difficult when looking at stick-pair (tap) voltages. If your total pack voltage is that high though, after a full charge and a couple days sitting, it could very well be only a cell or two - if the whole pack were seriously ailing, I don't think you'd see a total voltage that high, particularly after sitting for a couple days...

Unfortunately, without a spare set of wheels, the time I need to determine the problematic sticks would leave me off the road. It is definitely something I want to examine before making the final determination on the disposition of the car....The one BIG problem with leaving the pack off or bypassing is I live in New York and have annual inspections.
You could probably do some tap voltage sleuthing, pack remains installed and can generally be turned ON and OFF at will, as needed.

I think what you'd need to do is get the pack working enough, such as with resets and a bit of grid charge, so that you can drive a little and bring the IMA to its dysfunctional state, preferably close to home. You'd then pull into your driveway or garage and measure tap voltages... Or, in general, you need to just have your pack in its dysfunctional, low state, hook up your discharge load and then measure tap voltages. If a low cell or two are really causing the problem, then you should be able to spot the wayward, low voltage tap. Most taps might measure around 15.72V, while the suspect one should be down around ...maybe 15.51V or lower. You can leave the discharge load on and take some voltage measurements over some time period, maybe half an hour, if you're having a hard time spotting anything wayward from a single measurement event. Eventually, the cell causing the problem has to 'drop' and you'd see that in the tap voltage. If your pack is already on the edge, at or near its dysfunctional state, then this shouldn't take too long.

Here's a link to a description of how to measure tap voltages, if you choose to go this route:
https://www.insightcentral.net/thre...sight-nimh-voltage-thread.89298/#post-1006193
 

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Back in November 2015, I got a rebuilt pack from HybridRevolt.com
5 years is pretty good for an aftermarket pack. Some Honda replacement packs die right after the 3 year warranty. Figure you spent $300 a year and it doesn't feel as bad. If you're doing limited driving, any hybrid even the Prius, is going to have battery issues eventually.
 

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If it were my car, I'd replace the battery again in a 117k mile Insight in a heartbeat, and probably the transmission as well. I even have a core transmission I could let go cheap for you to rebuild at your own pace. It had the downshift grind but no pop-out, suggesting no damage to the actual gears. But, not everyone has the same circumstances.

If you're fine with another manual, I'm a pretty big fan of the Honda Fit. My wife is averaging 44mpg in mixed driving with her 07 Fit. They're fun to drive, have multiple times the interior cargo space, and are also absurdly reliable (not rare to see 300k+ on them), and have no hybrid system to fail. Mechanically simple, well built cars. I understand the automatics don't get nearly the fuel economy the manuals do, FWIW.
 

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If you're fine with another manual, I'm a pretty big fan of the Honda Fit. My wife is averaging 44mpg in mixed driving with her 07 Fit....I understand the automatics don't get nearly the fuel economy the manuals do, FWIW.
44 MPG mixed driving, huh. That's pretty good. We have an 07 Fit in my household - automatic - I think the best I've seen is like 36 MPG hwy. I don't drive/haven't driven it much though, and my housemate only drives it for like a few mile commute and under those circumstances has only averaged maybe 27 MPG...
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Wanted to do an update as while I am still driving my car, it is continuing to deteriorate. I ran a partial pack discharge this past weekend using two 75W bulbs in series. Took the pack down to 100 volts. It took a very long time to get there. Most of the pack still seems strong and this has me thinking that only three or four cells are really bad with the rest of the sticks in good shape. I just do not have the time to access the whole pack to take measurements of the sticks to find the offending ones.

After discharge, I recharged the pack to 174V and it sat overnight. This morning I drove 17 miles to my sisters. I was not out too far and my old "friend" the IMA light came on. Not unexpected. What was interesting this time though is the charge indicator went to full scale. Until I did the discharge this weekend, it always showed empty when the IMA light came on. It seemed to keep going as normal until I got onto I-495 on Long Island. Suddenly my 12 V and brake light came on o_O I am familiar with that happening with my previous pack and it obviously scares the living daylights out of me. I revved the engine a bit and the lights went out thankfully. They did not return for the rest of my trip. I have been running a voltage monitor in my cigarette lighter outlet for ages. I am noticing the voltage wavering between 14.1V and 11.5-12.7V. You can see the dashboard lights dim ever so slightly when the system drops to the lower voltage. My 5 year old 12V battery died two weeks ago so I am running a brand new one. If I rev the engine a bit, it will stay on 14.1V. I am guessing the pack is drawing an excessive amount of power from the system and causing the DC-DC converter to trip out on low RPM's. At the moment I have the pack back on the grid charger to try and top it off some more.

I did reset the BCM by pulling the fuse when I was at my sisters but the light came back on a few minutes later but also with a full charge scale. Thankfully the 12V and brake lights have stayed off but I am worried now as I am afraid they will return. In the past I solved the problem by switching the IMA breaker off and running the car as a conventional vehicle. I may have to do that again but I definitely need to move on to a newer vehicle. It runs sluggish in that case and engine is rough due to the lack of vibration dampening but I can get around.

More: I've been online looking a Prius c models as I have mention on here that I kind of like that small car and others on here have noted they have one. I @#$*@(#$ HATE car dealers. I saw one that looked nice and the price looked good. Found the fine print. That "advertised" price is AFTER you give then $2000 down and there is also a $695 "dealer fee" so in reality that price is actually $2700 higher than advertised AND you have to finance with them at 1.9%.

As I said I really hate many of these dealers. One of the few businesses where you feel filthy dealing with them. One of the reasons why I have been driving my Insight so long. Small price to pay to avoid dealing with car salespersons.
 

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Others correct me if I'm wrong, but the 12V battery light and the brake light come on if the revs go too HIGH not too low, over 4000 rpm I believe. The IMA can't absorb any of the power coming from the electric motor, so the dc-dc converter resets from too much power. The warning lights and dc-dc converter return to normal after 30s to a minute after the rpms go back to normal values.

Even with my IMA light on each time I start the car the car tries to charge the battery, and then usually goes to a negative recal with the IMA light on, but occasionally I get a positive recal and get charge and assist for a couple minutes. I don't need to reset the BCM each time to do that, though you can pull the fuse to force it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Others correct me if I'm wrong, but the 12V battery light and the brake light come on if the revs go too HIGH not too low, over 4000 rpm I believe. The IMA can't absorb any of the power coming from the electric motor, so the dc-dc converter resets from too much power. The warning lights and dc-dc converter return to normal after 30s to a minute after the rpms go back to normal values.
Yes that is one of the conditions as I recall.

When I first experienced this five years ago with my Honda supplied pack, it happened about a month after the IMA light first came on. I did not have a grid charger back then and had absolutely new clue what was going on inside the battery compartment. I got the 12V system to return to normal at that time by turning the IMA master switch off. Car ran very poorly but it ran. About a week later I decided to turn the switch back on and see what would happen. It seemed fine for a while but then as I was close to home, the 12V and brake light came back on again. At the time the information I got back from the collective knowledge was the battery pack was causing a significant drain and pulling the DC-DC converter offline. Seemed to make sense since disconnecting the battery brought everything back. But without the battery online, the car is more sensitive to the RPM range as I recall. I do remember hitting around 3000 RPM and the converter would kick out. Possibly something similar happening now. Regardless it scares me more than anything else the car has done lately.

I have been using a 12V cigarette lighter voltage digital display for a few years. What I have been seeing is the voltage fluctuating between 13.7-14.1V and 11.5-12.7V. If I am stopped at a light and the engine is idling, the voltage drops to the 12V range, the lights dim somewhat on the dashboard. If I rev a bit, the voltage goes back to 13.7-14.1V and the lights brighten. What exactly happened this morning I am not sure. I was terrified of having to pull over.
 

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You've probably got two types of '12V warning light' going on here. This latest case, where you got the light and then shortly after it went out, is likely the typical 'flaky IMA pack' case. I think it happens under loaded/assist conditions, when the load is enough to quickly drop a flaky cell's voltage too low, the steep slope is detected, and for whatever reason it's enough to trigger the DCDC disable fault, but doesn't trigger the other faults, like neg recal or an IMA light. It's kind of glitchy. But, it's been common around here as long as I've been around here. I used to see that sort of thing all the time on my first, wayward pack.

The second type is simply having one or more cells charged at a very low level, so low that it doesn't take much load at all to drop cell voltage. That's what happens when people bypass their packs in a half-assed way, by just turning the switch off, but not disconnecting the BCM. Eventually, at least one cell gets so low that the DCDC is disabled. Or, actually, I think the pack itself is disabled, partially taken out of the loop, and that affects DCDC operation. Not crystal clear on the exact mechanisms here.

The 12V voltage fluctuations you see are likely the DCDC toggling into and out of low power mode. Usually the DCDC puts out about 13.8-14.2V; in low power mode it toggles down to about 12.2V, so in essence the voltage you'll see at these times is whatever the 12V battery can uphold (but it won't drop below 12.2V).

In general, you probably weren't doing yourself any favors with your deep discharge. Your pack probably has one or more cells with fast self discharge, those cells are always near empty, and when you deep discharged you just ended up reversing them, probably damaging them more. To 'fix' the pack, I don't see any alternative other than identifying which sticks have the fast self discharge cells and replacing them. It's doable, I mentioned some steps earlier, but...

One thing that wasn't clear in this thread, that I might have misunderstood. You said you got a rebuilt Revolt pack at some point. Was that a rebuilt made of aftermarket cells, or a rebuilt of OEM cells? If aftermarket, you could have issues trying to grid charge and deep discharge, maybe you got the older flaky cells, etc. If OEM, then there might be some recourse, fixability... You said you got "9Ah" cells - so you probably got a rebuilt of aftermarket cells (they're actually supposed to be 8Ah, if that).
 

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Discussion Starter #16
You've probably got two types of '12V warning light' going on here. This latest case, where you got the light and then shortly after it went out, is likely the typical 'flaky IMA pack' case. I think it happens under loaded/assist conditions, when the load is enough to quickly drop a flaky cell's voltage too low, the steep slope is detected, and for whatever reason it's enough to trigger the DCDC disable fault, but doesn't trigger the other faults, like neg recal or an IMA light. It's kind of glitchy. But, it's been common around here as long as I've been around here. I used to see that sort of thing all the time on my first, wayward pack.
So far the light has not come back on. I was accelerating from the on ramp so the conditions were right to get a high RPM in connection with the battery pack in the state it was in at the time. I have been carrying a 10mm socket wrench with me for months on the off chance I need to pull over and turn the IMA pack off.

The second type is simply having one or more cells charged at a very low level, so low that it doesn't take much load at all to drop cell voltage. That's what happens when people bypass their packs in a half-assed way, by just turning the switch off, but not disconnecting the BCM. Eventually, at least one cell gets so low that the DCDC is disabled. Or, actually, I think the pack itself is disabled, partially taken out of the loop, and that affects DCDC operation. Not crystal clear on the exact mechanisms here.
I ran for about three weeks with the switch off until I was able to swap the replacement pack in. Car is definitely degraded and very sensitive to high RPM's tripping the DC-DC. Now with the lack of synchro's in 3rd and 5th, it is more complex to drive.

The 12V voltage fluctuations you see are likely the DCDC toggling into and out of low power mode. Usually the DCDC puts out about 13.8-14.2V; in low power mode it toggles down to about 12.2V, so in essence the voltage you'll see at these times is whatever the 12V battery can uphold (but it won't drop below 12.2V).
I often noticed these voltage fluctuations in the past but never paid that much attention to them. With the current state of the vehicle, they have suddenly become more noticeable to me.

In general, you probably weren't doing yourself any favors with your deep discharge. Your pack probably has one or more cells with fast self discharge, those cells are always near empty, and when you deep discharged you just ended up reversing them, probably damaging them more. To 'fix' the pack, I don't see any alternative other than identifying which sticks have the fast self discharge cells and replacing them. It's doable, I mentioned some steps earlier, but...

One thing that wasn't clear in this thread, that I might have misunderstood. You said you got a rebuilt Revolt pack at some point. Was that a rebuilt made of aftermarket cells, or a rebuilt of OEM cells? If aftermarket, you could have issues trying to grid charge and deep discharge, maybe you got the older flaky cells, etc. If OEM, then there might be some recourse, fixability... You said you got "9Ah" cells - so you probably got a rebuilt of aftermarket cells (they're actually supposed to be 8Ah, if that).
Yes I have come to the conclusion. I had hoped deep discharges would snap the weak cells back to life but it really did not do much other than probably worsen an already deteriorated situation. IMHO, most of the cells are probably in good shape with just a few causing all the problems. It would be a relative simple repair but it takes time to do and the car is out of commission during that time. I have no secondary vehicle so that makes it problematic. I already have someone on Facebook interested in it if I decide to part with it. It has 118,282 miles as of this morning so the engine is only at half its life.

With regards to the 9Ah cells. I bought the rebuilt pack from HybridRevolt.com. The options were 6.3Ah (original OEM rating) or 9.0Ah Panasonic cells. For some reason I decided to go with beefier cells figuring they would hold up better in service. Really made no difference. I have not looked at the availability of replacement sticks at that rating. Might almost be worth replacing them all with 6.3Ah OEM rated sticks instead.
 

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^ OEM cells are rated at 6.5Ah, the larger aftermarket cells are supposedly rated at 8Ah. There are no 9Ah cells...

You mention high RPM and DCDC disable - that's a separate issue. That would be a third type of DCDC disable situation. I don't recall anyone mentioning high RPM DCDC disable unless their pack is disabled/bypassed. Pretty sure that's not something that happens unless the pack is disabled/bypassed.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
^ OEM cells are rated at 6.5Ah, the larger aftermarket cells are supposedly rated at 8Ah. There are no 9Ah cells...

You mention high RPM and DCDC disable - that's a separate issue. That would be a third type of DCDC disable situation. I don't recall anyone mentioning high RPM DCDC disable unless their pack is disabled/bypassed. Pretty sure that's not something that happens unless the pack is disabled/bypassed.
Meant to respond the other day but two family issues cropped up including my elderly mother having a minor accident which had me focusing on a 2007 Nissan Versa instead of my vehicle.

Yes you are correct. It had been five years and I thought they were 9Ah. They are in fact 8Ah.

I was discussing with a car friend about the issue and he bluntly asked why I even looking to fuss around with the old cells looking for the bad sticks and the good stick. "Why don't I just get 20 new 6.5Ah sticks and be done with it?". Sometimes it takes someone else to point things out. I had been thinking of trying to limit myself to just the dealing with the weak sticks and/or replacing the whole assembly from a rebuilder again. Between the transmission issues and the IMA, the IMA is a higher priority for me. The car can pass New York State emissions inspection with a wonky tranny. It cannot pass with the IMA as it is. Tearing out the old 8Ah sticks does not look like a major job. I could do the work over a long weekend. I just need to find a reputable source for twenty 6.5Ah sticks.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Driving in to work this morning, the 12V light and brake light came on again. This time they did not go out. The 12V voltmeter showed a constant voltage of 11.5V rather than bouncing around between 14.1V and 11.8V or so. Luckily my sisters home is along my commute so I was able to divert there. Having seen similar behavior 5 years ago when the last pack failed, I flipped the IMA pack breaker off. As in the past, that did the trick. The car started on the conventional starter motor. A few seconds in the 12V light did come on BUT I remember from the past that there is some kind of diagnostic when the vehicle starts up and it turned off again. I did drive the car the rest of the way with no issues. The 12V voltage stayed in the 11.8V-14.1V range.

I had hoped that periodic grid charging would help me limp along on the defective IMA pack until I could sort things out with it (still not having any luck finding the newer used vehicle I want). I'd like to rip out the 8Ah sticks and replace them with 20 new 6.5Ah sticks. I am just not sure where to acquire them. It does not appear to be that big a chore to remove and replace sticks as long as I am able to get a matched set. I checked AliExpress and I see sticks for sale but the prices appear to be more than buying a rebuilt pack here. Plus I am not certain of the brand or quality of the ones on AliExpress. I figure by replacing the sticks myself, I cut down on the two-way shipping charges which add up.
 

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Did you also unplug the BCM? This should allow it to charge the 12V properly until you can figure out what you want to do.

Talk to Eli at Bumblebee for your battery needs...

Sam
 
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