[Elmer]

Friends;
I have been hovering at the dealers door to order a new 2006 insight.
My wife a very intelligent and educated individual has raised some concerns about the state of the hybrid art (technology)as represented in the insight in comparison to Civic,Prius,etc. (new) hybrid technology. I have considered a 2001,2002 and 2003 ctv and have determined that a new one would be the best buy and the smartest buy.
Please give us some feedback and advice to help us. We own four civics
in or extended family now and need no encouragment about buying Honda we are sold as a family (6).
appreciate your opinion and experience.
Elmer&Colleen Carlson
Vashon Island,Washington

 

[james]

I don't think the hybrid technology really matters. Sure, those other cars may have newer or (in the case of the Prius) different hybrid systems, but that shouldn't be the deciding factor. Far more important is the fact that it's a two-seater hatchback: if you need/want a four-seater, the Insight isn't for you. Is getting the highest mpg what matters to you? Then you want the Insight, regardless of whether other cars have newer tech.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Geez :!:

I remember the pace of life in the 90's and the Book "Future Shock" from the 70's but the Insight already obsolete, in less than 5 years :?:

Ummm, OK who's making a _comparable_ car with equivalent MPG :?:

Regardless, technical complexity doesn't often equal technical elegance. The Toyota Prius *is* a techno marvel. But simply "look" under the hood and compare and you'll see the difference in Honda's IMA elegance. If your concerned about the expense of owing an Insight then you ought to have nightmares over a Prius. Don't get me wrong its a _VERY_ well engineered car, but its more a "brute-force" solution in its hybrid drive train vs. the Honda system. _When_ either break its obvious that the Toyota system _will_ be a greater expense. Of course its the "when" that will make the bottom line difference and since it's beyond us mere mortal consumers to tell I'm putting my "faith" in the simpler system.

Yes, there are some reasonably promising new transportation technologies which appear only a few years away from implementation that _will_ eclipse the Insight technologically.

So the best solution is to walk and wait.

HTH!

 

[Elmer]

Insight?Obsolete Technology

I agree it comes down to my preference two seater versus 4-5 seater.
I love the technology and the way the insight handles.
So I guess I'm hooked.
Just trying to be sensible as this is a lot of outlay for our family.
Elmer

 

[Insightful Trekker]

In regard to being sensible its always a matter of degree. There are other cars that _won't_ attain the MPG that an Insight will and should equate to a lower operating cost per mile for many 10's of thousands of miles before it directly competes with an Insight. In the Honda realm a Civic HX comes to mind.

But as you can understand there are _many_ ways to "figure" these costs. So it will _always_ depend on how much your willing to spend. If the Insight isn't in your price range then its a big stretch to justify the cost based on MPG, aluminum body etc.

Its an "arguement" ad nauseum.

I know I can't "answer" this one for you :!: :shock:

HTH!

 

[Rick]

Honda's approach to a hybrid is probably best described as elegant simplicity. I do agree Hybrid Synergy Drive is an extremely well engineered system that so far has a great track record for reliability. That said in the event of a failure in the Toyota the car would not run, but you could still drive the Honda. If anything I would be concerned about maybe getting a first or second year car, your considering a brand new one where they've had 6+ years to iron out any kinks. That said, I got to briefly drive a 06 Insight last week and I'm not sure if mine is just getting worn after 3 years, but the fit and finish seemed slightly better on it.

Things they've changed over the model years include updates to the battery and motor control modules. Plus 04 and newer cars are listed as having 6.0ah batteries instead of the 6.5ah ones they used previously, so this suggests they switched over to the Civic batteries. And there have been at least a couple ECM tweaks along the way. So if anything to that effect is of your concern they've made positive changes to the car over the years.

 

[ghillie]

Elmer
I have both a Prius and an Insight - though I can't comment on the IMA Civic or other hybrids now available. IMHO you would be happy with either car. But, if you need more than two seats forget the Insight. If you want a manual (stick) shift, forget the Prius.

My choice would be the Insight. It's the sports car you may have been always unable to buy (cost, family commitments etc.) - but you don't have to justify it as a sports car. It's the Porsche 356 of the 21st century (but better). Hybrid technology will improve - but they're never going to build a car in aluminium for this price again. Surely someone soon will take the FE crown from the Insight, but in 10 years time it will still be amongst the best.

Maybe what you need is someone to say "You can't buy that" so that you can say "Just watch me!" Follow your heart and enjoy.

 

[ghillie]

John -

The Insight is a great car - but to use the words "brute force" to describe the Prius just isn't right (even when used with quotation marks). The Prius is as refined and elegant as any car on the road. Hybrid synergy drive is a brilliant engineering solution, delivering performance, convenience and economy in a car that is much heavier than the Insight.

Failure of the hybrid system will no doubt strand a Prius when it would not do the same to an Insight - but this is hardly a concern of much practical significance. Toyota has an enviable reputation for reliability and they have too much at stake to allow the Prius to gain a reputation for hybrid failure. Of course it may happen and no doubt there will be owners with sad stories of Prius failure and Toyota indifference - but it is not something that I think should influence the buying decision of most people.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Agreed that the term "brute-force" is inelegant. As a comparison / contrast to the Insight I had to find a term, and I'm still groping for a better one. And your correct about Toyota's commitment to customer satisfaction. So in regard to sub 100K problems there should be ZERO worries.

But now that we have the Accord Hybrid and a better comparison to the Prius, the 06 Civic hybrid I don't see any advantages for the Toyota system. Maybe that's why Toyota has announced its "next" generation Hybrid system will be different :?: There's a post in our General News Discussion forum in this regard, see:

Toyota to make cheaper hybrid system
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=3941

HTH!

 

[Aaron Cake]

Hands down you cannot buy a hybrid that can even come close to competing with the 5 speed Insight in terms of mileage. I think that statement speaks for itself.

There are newer hybrid technologies of course, which I guess in a sense makes the Insight obsolete in the same way that a computer is obsolete as soon as a successive model is introduced.

 

[b1shmu63]

Yes, the new Civic is a kind of Honda "thumb your nose at the Prius". There has never been a chummy relationship between Honda and Toyota and the new Civic is so close in spec to the Prius that it cannot be an accident. Both systems are terrific! Honda uses an "overly complex" valve system to work their majiik.

What is overly complex? (My computer is overly complex for 99 percent of what I do on it.) I drove home this evening some 50 miles on deserted country roads in sub zero temperatures at 2:00 AM. The heater worked great, I averaged over 68 miles per US gallon. (call me a wild man) I never worried about the overly complex slightly dated IMA system, and no one saw me grinning in the dark. :lol:

 

[b1shmu63]

Oh ya, about a month ago a fellow asked me at a light what model of Porche I had. :roll: I explained gently that it was a rather limited Honda hybrid model.

 

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

Elmer
One other consideration is that the Insight has some interesting modifications that can be done to enhance the driving experience, and further improve the milage, and we are just getting startied, with grid charging and booster battery packs only a few months away. Which will place the technology ahead of the production Hybrids :wink:

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Honda uses an "overly complex" valve system to work their majiik.

LOL :!: :lol:

 

[james]

"Honda uses an "overly complex" valve system to work their majiik."

The difference is that Honda's valve system sits out of sight, and just works without detracting from driving. The Toyota hybrid system, as good as the engineering may be, still forces major (and to me unacceptable) changes on the basic car. It forces you to have an effing automatic transmission :-(

 

[JoeMultihuller]

Elmer,
The Insight is not just a normal car which has been hybridized. Read the tech paper which discusses how it was conceived from the ground-up to be an all-out mileage champion while still providing us with the safety and most of the creature comforts expected from modern vehicles.
http://www.osti.gov/bridge/product.bibl ... =3&start=0
Think of it as buying proven advanced technology.
You must drive an Insight to appreciate the wonderful feedback the display provides you - you're given the tools, are challenged to improve your mileage, and are immediately rewarded for your efforts. We're talking about huge swings here - i.e., 60 mpg if you don't try and 80 mpg with just a little effort. With an instananeous mpg readout and three trip meters which show you your mpg and mileage, every trip you take becomes a game. This just adds another dimension to the fun of driving a great little car. JoeS.