Honda Insight Forum banner
41 - 60 of 64 Posts

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
2,950 Posts
Discussion Starter · #41 ·
So upon talking to Bulldog he doesn't recommend putting in lithium for such an extreme use case until it's more polished. I'm going to defer to his judgement at this time since he was pretty involved in the process.
Let me know more about your "extreme use case". I trust @Bull Dog's judgment, but I'm just curious about your unique circumstances.

I read the FAQ and talked to both John and Natalya for a long time and asked all my questions. I was about to pull the trigger on this setup as my IMA is mostly dead but I realized after my research that I'm in the same boat as you.
I agree the LiBCM Open Beta wasn't for you. You want rock solid reliability, zero additional effort, and no risk. LiBCM isn't there yet... but it will get there eventually.

It's a brilliant product for those that have the time/know-how/desire to constantly monitor it, do the updates, and deal with potential beta bugs.
Thoughts:
LiBCM is good enough right now that I hardly ever monitor anything. For now this is technically your responsibility, but LiBCM hasn't "lost control" in my car in several months now. I basically ignore it, sans a passing glance every half hour or so.

The firmware updates are quite simple. People tend to be afraid of updating firmware... honestly if you just watch the video and follow along, there's nothing to fear. You're not going to brick LiBCM... and if you do (somehow), I'll just send you another $20 Arduino Mega2560. During the beta period, the required monthly update takes just a few minutes. After you do it once, it'll be stupid simple... and again, it's all laid out in the video.

I'd love for someone to chime in on how easy (or hard) the firmware process is... anyone who has installed the IMA Delete firmware onto an Arduino Uno has already gone through the entire experience.

In regards to beta bugs, absolutely yes, they will exist. Guaranteed. Probably a couple cars will throw P-codes. @Natalya's car still throws P1576(12) more regularly than I'd like. I don't think any other beta cars are throwing P-codes at this point. Mine hasn't in months.

I believe I've been quite forthcoming about the state LiBCM is in at this moment. @Natalya and I are working on merging our various programming efforts right now. We should have that finished prior to any packages arriving in the mail (e.g. next Tuesday).
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
2,950 Posts
Discussion Starter · #42 · (Edited)
So am I going to regret not jumping in here while these are available if I don’t need the new battery just yet? I would be counting on you still producing these a year or two down the line… :)
I will manufacture LiBCM units until any of the following events occur:
-people stop buying them, and/or;
-parts are no longer available, and/or;
-customers treat me like a doormat and I get tired of selling them, and/or;
-someone burns their car to the ground, sues me, and gets all of Linsight's assets, and/or;
-I die or become physically and/or mentally unable to do so.

I suspect the biggest risk for LiBCM's continued availability is parts shortages. While I have purchased the parts to build QTY250 units, many of those parts are backordered indefinitely. At this very moment, I have the parts to build QTY88 more units. Once those are gone, I won't be able to fulfill new orders until backordered parts arrive.

I wouldn't be too worried about missing out... at least during the Open Beta period. I suspect that once LiBCM exits Open Beta, the units will sell faster than they are right now. I suppose the conditions I outlined in my lengthy purchase form scared off non-hardcore users... which was precisely my goal.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
807 Posts
I agree the LiBCM Open Beta wasn't for you. You want rock solid reliability, zero additional effort, and no risk. LiBCM isn't there yet... but it will get there eventually.
Yes, exactly. When it does I'll be first in line. I own 5 cars and I'm wrenching on four of them right now....and 4 kids and 1 wife and 1 cat, just don't have the bandwidth in my life to do the beta thing now. But I'm following and excited. Love the tour video.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mudder

·
Registered
2000 Honda Insight
Joined
·
11 Posts
Hey Mudder! This is amazing. I'm almost looking forward to my insight battery dying again, or maybe looking to pick up a second one for the wife. I've got a few questions, I don't mean to wear you out more than you already are, but I'm kind of a nerd for this sort of thing.

What is the capacity in comparison to the NiMH battery pack?

With that, I imagine that the C rate of the lithium pack is likely higher than the glorified D cells, so would it be possible to create a grid charger that charges at a higher amperage or are there other technical limitations?

From what I understand, with the OBDC&C, you can tweak the assist percentages to yield better milage, I'm guessing the amperage flowing to the IMA will likely remain the same, but you would know more than probably anyone, is there a thermal limitation or other limitation that would prevent us from driving a lithium pack hard to rely more on the angry pixies than the dino juice?

Thank you again, and congratulations. This is no small feat.
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
2,950 Posts
Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Excellent questions. I've mostly answered your questions on the FAQ page, which is still a work in progress. If you want to know more about LiBCM and don't mind reading a rough edit, it contains quite a bit of technical information summarized from the 1000+ posts here on ic.net.

What is the capacity in comparison to the NiMH battery pack?
From the FAQ:
Q: Does an EHW5 lithium battery store more energy than the stock NiMH pack?
A: A 48S LiBCM-equipped IMA battery with EHW5 lithium cells stores 30% more deliverable energy than an OEM NiMH pack*.

*An OEM NiMH pack nominally stores 936 Wh, whereas the EHW5 lithium pack only stores 887 Wh. However, the lithium pack has a wider safe operating SoC range, and can therefore deliver more energy (666 Wh) than the OEM pack (515 Wh).


With that, I imagine that the C rate of the lithium pack is likely higher than the glorified D cells, so would it be possible to create a grid charger that charges at a higher amperage or are there other technical limitations?
From the FAQ:
Q: Why is the grid charger so slow?
A: Cost. LiBCM is designed to fully charge a completely discharged EHW5 pack overnight.
A: LiBCM supports higher current grid chargers, as long as the following conditions are met:
-If the grid charger sources more than 3 amps from the wall outlet, then you need to replace both tube fuses on LiBCM with a higher-current-rated variant.
-The grid charger must source and sink less than 8 amps (with larger fuses installed).
-The grid charger must be connected to LiBCM identically to the included grid charger.
A: Replacement grid chargers must meet the following criteria:
-constant current supply
-must output voltage between at least 139:207 volts (with 48S lithium cells)
-output current must be controllable via a PWM pulse train.
A: Example replacement grid charges:
-HLG-480H-C2100B (charges 5 Ah pack empty-to-full in under two hours)
-HLG-320H-C1400B (charges 5 Ah pack empty-to-full in under three hours)
-PLED200W-190-C1050-D (charges 5 Ah pack empty-to-full in under four hours)
-GEN200-16.5 (charger 5 Ah pack empty-to-full is under fifteen minutes)


From what I understand, with the OBDC&C, you can tweak the assist percentages to yield better milage, I'm guessing the amperage flowing to the IMA will likely remain the same, but you would know more than probably anyone, is there a thermal limitation or other limitation that would prevent us from driving a lithium pack hard to rely more on the angry pixies than the dino juice?
From the FAQ:
Q: Will all this additional power 'hurt' the stock IMA system?
A: The NiMH pack is by far the weakest part of the OEM IMA system.
A: The next weakest part is the IGBT module. The MCM monitors both current and temperature on this module (and will disable assist/regen as needed).
A: The IMA motor does not have temperature feedback. However, the 5 Ah EHW5 lithium modules LiBCM is designed for cannot provide regen/assist long enough to overheat the motor (a larger lithium battery could, though). Anecdotal evidence suggests that discharging an 8x larger pack does not overheat the IMA motor.
A: Overall, there's low risk that installing LiBCM will damage the IMA system.
A: LiBCM could cause increased wear on mechanical components, due to the increased torque delivered to the wheels.


FYI: @retepsnikrep's OBDC&C system has several different modes that allow the driver to tweak assist and regen. So you can command when assist/regen occures. In contrast, @Bull Dog's current hack PCB (a different product, co-designed with @retepsnikrep) physically changes how much current is delivered to the IMA system (e.g. by adding 42% to all requested values). Both of these systems are compatible with LiBCM.

FYI: If you're going to add a huge battery (e.g. Nissan Leaf cells), then it would still take a LONG time to damage the stock IMA system... the OEM NiMH cells were really terrrible compared to the rest of the IMA system.


Thank you again, and congratulations. This is no small feat.
Thanks for your questions and support! LiBCM has certainly taken much longer than I anticipated. Fun COVID project, though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
LiBCM is good enough right now that I hardly ever monitor anything. For now this is technically your responsibility, but LiBCM hasn't "lost control" in my car in several months now. I basically ignore it, sans a passing glance every half hour or so.
Just rode shotgun (with Mudder) for a couple hundred miles of daytripping and I don't recall him once checking the status of the LiBCM system — it just worked, flawlessly. Earlier that morning I was passenger in a Tesla III Performace, so the Insight's performance was obviously relatively anemic... but less pathetic than the usual OEM Honda NiMH configuration. And we did Chattanooga -> Nashville -> Chattanooga on about 4 gallons of 87 octane gas (my vehicle would have used 11+ gallons of 91+ octane).

Very impressive project, and I hope this community enjoys the labor of love that this has been — although I don't really understand many of the technicals, it's obvious that ya'll's passion exceeds common sense. Bravo, and I hope you enjoy the new license plate (just saw Tenn's new blue design, today).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,232 Posts
Very impressive project, and I hope this community enjoys the labor of love that this has been — although I don't really understand many of the technicals, it's obvious that ya'll's passion exceeds common sense. Bravo, and I hope you enjoy the new license plate (just saw Tenn's new blue design, today).
Hahahahaha. Isn't this the truth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Natalya and mudder

·
Registered
2003 Honda Insight CVT JDM lean burn ECU
Joined
·
171 Posts
Car is loaded up with QTY13 LiBCM units, ready for shipment tomorrow. Apologies to those that should have received a first round shipment (due to your 'place' in line), but who instead got bumped because I didn't have your address. It looks like if you pay F&F, then Paypal won't show you a shipping address. Now I know. I've sent a message to each person who has paid, but didn't have an address listed.

If you didn't receive a USPS tracking number (either via paypal, ic.net message, or email (in that order)), then you didn't make the first batch.
😢 😢 😢 feeling like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football...and PayPal is Lucy pulling LiBCM away during shipping

Cartoon Facial expression Vertebrate Sharing Organism
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
2,950 Posts
Discussion Starter · #51 · (Edited)
😢 😢 😢 feeling like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football...and PayPal is Lucy pulling LiBCM away during shipping
Paypal is the suck. You absolutely should have received a first batch unit, but you'll certainly be in batch two... on the other hand, look how happy you made @Balto!
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
2,950 Posts
Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Just rode shotgun (with Mudder) for a couple hundred miles of daytripping and I don't recall him once checking the status of the LiBCM system — it just worked, flawlessly. Earlier that morning I was passenger in a Tesla III Performace, so the Insight's performance was obviously relatively anemic... but less pathetic than the usual OEM Honda NiMH configuration.
How did Insight's lumbar support compare to Tesla's?

And we did Chattanooga -> Nashville -> Chattanooga on about 4 gallons of 87 octane gas (my vehicle would have used 11+ gallons of 91+ octane).
...and I'm not even a hyper-miler. We 'only' got 61 mpg. Others on this forum would have used 2.5 gallons of gas... and would have spent all day driving 250 miles.

Very impressive project, and I hope this community enjoys the labor of love that this has been — although I don't really understand many of the technicals, it's obvious that ya'll's passion exceeds common sense. Bravo, and I hope you enjoy the new license plate (just saw Tenn's new blue design, today).
Spot on: "[your] passion exceeds common sense".

Also, it's true: I recently ordered 'LITHIUM' on Tennessee's new solid blue plate design:
Rectangle Font Magenta Parallel Electric blue


I'm excited to replace my existing plates.
TN's old plate design is gross.
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
2,950 Posts
Discussion Starter · #53 ·
FYI: Right now I have ~QTY8 remaining "will ship soon" spots left in the Open Beta program. I will still accept Open Beta orders after those spots are filled, but there will be around a one month delay before I ship units again (after those spots are filled). To be clear, if you've already placed an order, then you WILL get a PCB in the next week or two. The next eight people that place an order will also get an LiBCM unit in the next week or two. But after that, Open Beta orders won't ship again until I receive "all is good" feedback from existing Open Beta customers.
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
2,950 Posts
Discussion Starter · #55 ·
I love seeing build videos! Thanks, Peter!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,232 Posts
Yummy yummy IMA battery stick.
 

·
Registered
2002 Insight 5MT
Joined
·
2 Posts
My parts are all in as of the other day (and my nimh pack threw a p1449 literally while I was driving to pick up the batteries so the timing couldn't be better!)

I'm so excited to build it but I've got a lot to do first. Gotta clean out the whole car, especially the last of the pesky glass from having my hatch smashed in for a 2nd time in two years, probably put in a fresh 12v batt, as it's been a little dodgy starting in the Minnesota cold recently, and hopefully fix a couple other pesky cosmetic issues, as long as I'm in a heated garage. But then, probably this weekend or next I'm putting it all together (and running an extension cord out to my parking spot for the grid charger!!)
 
41 - 60 of 64 Posts
Top