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Linsight Designer
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Discussion Starter · #722 ·
Could we please get a new dedicated thread for the 47 Ahr FoMoCo build and for supporting processes.
I was holding off on doing so because I don't want to spam the board. I think I've already made six different threads regarding LiBCM... but yeah, I guess it makes sense to have a dedicated "LiBCM Open Beta : 47 Ah FoMoCo Discussion" thread...

...and once it's released, probably also a "LiBCM: 47 Ah FoMoCo Support" thread.
 

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I was holding off on doing so because I don't want to spam the board. I think I've already made six different threads regarding LiBCM... but yeah, I guess it makes sense to have a dedicated "LiBCM Open Beta : 47 Ah FoMoCo Discussion" thread...

...and once it's released, probably also a "LiBCM: 47 Ah FoMoCo Support" thread.
I don't think anyone is complaining. Your threads are by far the most active on the forums, and others with questions/concerns about other stuff are still being helped/acknowledged. It's also nice to go to a specific thread for something specific, rather than having all the chaos in one thread that is hundreds of pages and thousands of replies long.
 

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It isn't 'spamming when there is already a real, live, working version - preliminary as it may be. ;)
 

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Do tell what you discovered.
Well….

1 It’s just awesome, battery strength is amazing both in assist and state of charge….

2, I accidentally tried to start it (just to roll down window) while grid charging and the car started talking to me…but then fixed itself (cleared code) once I unplugged…brilliant…

3, two months later I continue to notice and be amazed at how different the car drives compared to stock….when you have torque, when you need to shift, etc…so much improved vs. OEM…

4, current hack (not Libcm but part of my install) does wonders for both assist and regen….

5, the car is just happier….from the first time I press the right pedal after startup it just feels so much better, more responsive, more “right”…less weak, more “normal”….

That said John are you any closer to that update that’s supposed to add a bit more juice/power…the one you mentioned you were gonna add in firmware after talking with Peter???
 

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Discussion Starter · #728 ·
Well….

1 It’s just awesome, battery strength is amazing both in assist and state of charge….
Sweet! Not everyone likes how 'aggressive' the existing profile is... eventually there will be 'softer' ones.

2, I accidentally tried to start it (just to roll down window) while grid charging and the car started talking to me…but then fixed itself (cleared code) once I unplugged…brilliant…
I've had this happen a couple times, too... I figured we didn't want to drag our extension cords down the street.

3, two months later I continue to notice and be amazed at how different the car drives compared to stock….when you have torque, when you need to shift, etc…so much improved vs. OEM…
Wait until you use a manual IMA setup... it's another huge leap forward!

4, current hack (not Libcm but part of my install) does wonders for both assist and regen….
FYI: LiBCM is also doing things by itself to further increase power to the wheels... primarily voltage spoofing, which adds an additional 5 kW or so IIRC.

5, the car is just happier….from the first time I press the right pedal after startup it just feels so much better, more responsive, more “right”…less weak, more “normal”….
Agreed... like you, I nursed a dead pack along for years waiting for LiBCM to come out.

That said John are you any closer to that update that’s supposed to add a bit more juice/power…the one you mentioned you were gonna add in firmware after talking with Peter???
No. Firmware hasn't been my focus this month, even though last month I said it was my focus this month. I'm just super busy right now. I'd still like to exit Open Beta by the end of the year, but progress has been slow because there's always so much to do everywhere else.

Tomorrow I'm hopefully going to release a firmware update to fix a bug I discovered earlier this week (documented here on ic). And then I'm hopping on a plane to Italy for a few weeks. I'm bringing my laptop specifically to support Open Beta users, but I don't expect to do any development on vacation.
 

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Regarding the last discussion point about increased power via Peter’s idea, I realize that will be delayed, will that ever be coming or is that something I should get out of my mind?
The power can be increased in the system in two basic ways.

Increase the current. (The +40% current hack and/or voltage spoofing do this)

Increase the voltage. (More cells like the 60S versus the 48S system..)

So a 60S LiBCM system is about 25-30kw with current hack & voltage spoofing.
That's about as good as it will get without further serious ££ mods.
 

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The power can be increased in the system in two basic ways.

Increase the current. (The +40% current hack and/or voltage spoofing do this)

Increase the voltage. (More cells like the 60S versus the 48S system..)

So a 60S LiBCM system is about 25-30kw with current hack & voltage spoofing.
That's about as good as it will get without further serious ££ mods.
Excuse me. That's as much power as the engine puts out at the wheels stock. That's absolutely bonkers. Imagine the 60s on my turbo car... The poor CVT trans... I can hear it slipping with just me talking about it.
 

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I see mentions of a couple things that I'm looking for a quick clarification as I consider the conversion.

Is a 60S something that will be possible with the current LiBCM or will this require more to it (regarding major components other than batteries and current LiBCM version)?

What is this referring to? FoMoCo. Is this regarding a different battery pack setup that will need a new BCM other than the current LiBCM, assuming it comes to fruition and is developed or is it more or less in the firmware and a few other relatively minor changes?

I am just trying to understand and weigh the options before just purchasing and hoping for the best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #735 · (Edited)
Note: I have slightly edited @live4soccer7 's original comments for clarity.

What is "FoMoCo" referring to?
The "47Ah FoMoCo DIY LiBCM Kit" is the same LiBCM PCB, but with a much larger battery. The 'FoMoCo' name is because the lithium modules are sourced from Ford Motor Company vehicles. A FoMoCo LiBCM conversion has ~11.7 times more usable energy than a 5AhG3 LiBCM conversion.

Is this regarding a different battery pack setup that will need a new BCM other than the current LiBCM.
The same LiBCM PCB is used for both the 5AhG3 and 47Ah FoMoCo. However, pretty much everything else is different between these two kits, including the following:
-different current cables
-different BMS cables
-different grid charger
-different mounting hardware
-etc

Assuming it comes to fruition and is developed or is it more or less in the firmware and a few other relatively minor changes?
The 5AhG3 LiBCM Kit is already shipping, but is still in 'Open Beta' (probably through the end of 2022).
The 47Ah FoMoCo LiBCM Kit should start shipping before Thanksgiving. I'm waiting on one more custom part to arrive. I can't shoot the installation videos until that part arrives... when it does, it'll be at least another week before I ship kits. Shooting and editing the videos takes a long time. As a reference, I ended up filming 13 hours of raw footage for the 5AhG3 installation videos... which took just over one calendar week.

Is a 60S something that will be possible with the current LiBCM or will this require more to it (regarding major components other than batteries and current LiBCM version)?
I'm running 60S FoMoCo in my car right now. The only additional hardware required is a fifth FoMoCo module; all 47Ah FoMoCo Kits will work in either 48S or 60S configuration. Right now the only advantage to running 60S is the additional stored energy; both versions will have the same peak power delivery on day one. Eventually 60S will deliver higher peak power, but the firmware isn't there yet.

If you decide to use 5AhG3 modules, 60S will theoretically work, too... but I'm not officially supporting it at the moment because it's not a "clean" mechanical setup (the fourth (12S) module won't fit in the OEM battery enclosure). If you want 60S, my recommendation is to purchase QTY5 FoMoCo modules instead.

I am just trying to understand and weigh the options before just purchasing and hoping for the best.
I'll eventually have a "comparison" page at linsight.org... it's not high on my list right now, but eventually I'll get around to it.
 

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@mudder Thank you! I'm not sure if that can be pinned, but I'm sure that will help a lot of others in deciding. Basically, what I came to conclude from that is the 60s "FoMoCO" is the end game for this and likely the most desirable setup. Is this correct? If so, I'll begin looking at batts and wait for that setup to start shipping. My NiMH are completely toast.
 

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Discussion Starter · #737 ·
Based on my experience, FoMoCo is certainly the most fun, but only if you have a manual IMA controller and like to be really involved with the driving experience... IMO FoMoCo is overkill and unnecessary if you don't plan to control the electric motor yourself. FoMoCo also doesn't make much sense unless you intend to grid charge often.

The smaller 5AhG3 configuration has its place, too, as a near drop-in replacement for those folks that just want the IMA system to work. This includes people that don't have a manual IMA controller, and also to those that don't intend to grid charge regularly.
 

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Based on my experience, FoMoCo is certainly the most fun, but only if you have a manual IMA controller and like to be really involved with the driving experience... IMO FoMoCo is overkill and unnecessary if you don't plan to control the electric motor yourself. FoMoCo also doesn't make much sense unless you intend to grid charge often.

The smaller 5AhG3 configuration has its place, too, as a near drop-in replacement for those folks that just want the IMA system to work. This includes people that don't have a manual IMA controller, and also to those that don't intend to grid charge regularly.
Well said Mudder. A lot of people like myself have to park on the street, and don't have access to charge ports on the daily. The bigger pack would be extra weight and complications with none of the benefits. This is why I'm happy with my 5AhG3 kit.
 

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I suppose another consideration would be pack availability as well as time goes on. Already, being able to simply purchase the FoMoCo packs right off a website is a benefit where is seems more difficult to get the G3 packs and the proper configuration.

I'm not certain if the MIMAC&C is still being sold new or if it is something that has to be picked up second hand market. I already have the OBDIIC&C.

How is the fitment for the FoMoCo 60S battery setup? I'm leaning toward this setup at the moment.
 

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I'm not certain if the MIMAC&C is still being sold new or if it is something that has to be picked up second hand market. I already have the OBDIIC&C.

How is the fitment for the FoMoCo 60S battery setup? I'm leaning toward this setup at the moment.
@mudder has a couple of videos that will answer a lot of your questions. The first one is his own version of MIMA, and the 2nd one shows the fitment of his prototype FoMoCo setup. If you search on YouTube for "John Sullivan LiBCM" or "John Sullivan FoMoCo" you can find a lot more.


 
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