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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I thought my CVT died from destroyed bands, but folks noted that flywheel spline problems are the more common failure mode. I expected to dispose of my 2003 CVT Bluesight, but there is now new hope that it is "simply" replacing the flywheel. We'll see...

But in the meantime, I'm moving the investigation of options from the "for sale" forum to here...where it's more appropriate. A few initial links:

Has anyone seen a CVT flywheel assembly fail in this manner before?
CVT just went out =(
Replacing CVT Flywheel Compatibility Question
Help CVT Diagnosis
Did your stripped flywheel give error code P1885?
How difficult to replace the flywheel?
How do you pull the flywheel off a CVT?
 

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Scott (K3LRYCL) does a flywheel repair which may be stronger than just a replacement secondhand flywheel.

I believe he machines out the dead splines and welds in a new insert..
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I'm still diagnosing, but all indications are that the problem is the splines. There are no CVT codes, which is a big telltale sign for splines. I tried the "boroscope" to see if the bands are good, but no help...probably because I'd need to remove the CVT fluid first. Just get a brown haze. Removing the fluid would tell me if the bands are bad, based on the presence or absence of metal scraps. So that's a pretty simple step to take next.

I have the manual pages to get to the flywheel (CVT removal - pp407-442), and it looks like a fair job to do. I'm not sure I'm up for it, given my limited tool set. I may try to find a shop or traveling mechanic to deal with it. Then I would need to acquire a flywheel assembly along with the trick rubber sealing ring.

I'll touch base with Scott on his flywheel option. And check around here as to what's available. My understanding is the 2010 Insight CVT flywheel will fit on the G1, so those may be more readily available. They come up as Honda part #22100-RBJ-000 at ~$600...way too much, but at least they still can be ordered. Aftermarket might be another option. Used is less appealing due to possible pre-worn splines, but still probably good enough to hopefully last a few more years. It looks like the seal is available as part #91207-PWR-003 (Oil Seal (19X37X7) (Nok))...not too bad at less than $10.

PS...I think I found the flywheel for G1 Insights as part #22100-PHM-010. It also looks to still be available, and is still expensive, but cheaper than the G2 version (~$540)...

PPSS...No joy finding aftermarket CVT flywheels for G1 or G2 Insights...

PPPSSS...Looks like $85 is the going price around here for "recycled" G2 flywheels...that's not too bad...
 

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Where did you get the info that the G2 flywheel will work on the G1.

Willie
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Next step diagnostic: Emptied the CVT fluid and found no metal on the magnetic plug. So the band(s) are probably good. I tried the boroscope again and could see some unfocused metal parts, but not enough to find the band(s). Not a biggie...

One odd thing is that I shut down the IMA so the 12V starter engaged to turn over the engine. And the engine did turn over. I figured if the splines were not engaging, the engine couldn't turn over from the flywheel, but I am assuming I just don'r understand where the flywheel engages for the starter...hopefully not through the splines. Anyone enlighten me on that....?

Next step action is to pull the CVT to get to the flywheel and do a final diagnosis on the splines. It's a project I'm not sure I can do in it's entirety, so I may try to find some help.

Once sure on the bad splines, I can order a replacement flywheel, probably from a G2 Insight, locally available at ~$100. I also need to get that Honda seal and some Honda trick grease.

Finally, getting it all back together. Again, it will probably take some local help.

B
 

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The CVT flywheel is the same configuration (sort of) as a manual transmission one, except no provision for a clutch. The starter engages with the large ring gear on the outside, just like any other car. The splines we're talking about are in the center of the flywheel and engage with the input shaft of the transmission.

PM me either a cell number or an email address and I'll send you pictures. I have one that's out of the car.

Sam
 

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One odd thing is that I shut down the IMA so the 12V starter engaged to turn over the engine. And the engine did turn over. I figured if the splines were not engaging, the engine couldn't turn over from the flywheel, but I am assuming I just don'r understand where the flywheel engages for the starter...hopefully not through the splines. Anyone enlighten me on

B
Flywheel is bolted to the IMA rotor which is in turn bolted to crankshaft, so starter turns ring gear on flywheel which in turn turns engine.

And the hip bone connected to the thigh bone, the thigh bone connected to the knee bone, the knee bone connected to the leg bone, and...........
 

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The repaired flywheel may def be stronger depending on the insert they use, speak to scott before doing anything.
You certainly aren't' giving it an easy life.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Disassembly start

I have a note in to Scott. I've survived hundreds of drop-shifter starts on this flywheel with 207K miles. What I'd hope is that a "preowned" flywheel with good splines can hold up for another couple hundred starts. By then, who knows what else will wear out on Bluesight. But it would be nice if a heavier duty option was available.

I started taking things apart to drop the tranny. And the service manual instructions have been pretty good...until...

I got to page 413...section 17 for CVT removal, and Fig 292. The simple instruction is: "Remove the front and upper transmission housing mounting bolts". Those manual writers must be real jokers, because getting to the "upper transmission housing bolt" looks to be a good trick. I seem to need a 12.5" extension for a short 17mm half-inch socket to get in there. I don't have enough odd parts to make it happen. And, even then, it may take a bigger half inch beaker bar/ratchet than I have to break it.

Others have obviously gotten past this road block. I'd be interested in the trick to do it...

B
 

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I seem to need a 12.5" extension for a short 17mm half-inch socket to get in there. I don't have enough odd parts to make it happen. And, even then, it may take a bigger half inch beaker bar/ratchet than I have to break it.

Others have obviously gotten past this road block. I'd be interested in the trick to do it...

B
It took me multiple long extensions with a 1/2" breaker bar to get all of the bolts out. I reached most of them from the bottom, if memory serves.

Fortunately, my wife had hit a deer several years ago, taking out the RH fender liner, which resulted in me having lots of room. For one bolt, I put enough extensions together to put my breaker bar all the way out past the RH end of my engine!
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
OK...I got that upper bolt. As mentioned above, it took combining several (types) of 1/2" extensions to make ~13" from the wrench to the end of the 17mm socket. There is some space between the front pulley and the inner fender plastic to get in the socket wrench. I managed to use my old Harbor Freight torque wrench for it, but it was a hassle to get enough of a "click" to get it started. And it took a while given it's a long(gg) bolt and with only about 30 degrees of wrench rotation. So this is what it looked like...

B

PS...I sure hope I got the right bolt:)
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Trouble Removing Castle Nuts

I keep forgetting how to remove the front lower control arm (LCA) castle nuts. Next time, maybe I'll find this and remember...

Once you remove the spindle nut and push the spindle/half axle in, you can loosen the castle nut after removing the cotter pin (side note...if possible, orient the LCA joint cotter pin hole from front to back to make it easier to get access to the cotter pin). But then the castle nut is hard, or impossible, to get off if the wheels are steered straight. You need to steer the car as far as possible left to get off the driver side castle nut, and right to get off the passenger side castle nut. Even then, it may be necessary to pry back the axle (toward center) to get enough space to get off the nut.

A few more hints on loosening the castle nut...For the driver side, steering far left provides better exposure to the nut and makes it easier to loosen against the steering stop, especially if the castle nut is a little tight (like it was on mine...and I'm the one that put it on). For the passenger side, it's also better steering far left to both access the nut and loosen against the steering stop.

Those are the tricks to remember...

B
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
The universal ball joint removal tools are generally too big to fit in on the driver side LCA joint under the ABS sensor wheel. The tool I tried popped off and damaged the threads...a real drag. So, first trick is to leave the castle nut on, or get a different nut and put it on to protect the threads. This appears to be common knowledge, but the manual says to remove the nut...and I did. So now I need to rethread the joint, which is an immense drag (I did it before when I replaced the hubs, etc a while back).

But...the real trick is to forget about taking apart at the joint. It's a heck of a lot easier to drop the lower control arms. Just 4 small bolts to take off the shield. Then another 4 big bolts to unbolt the LCA. Never need to touch the ball joint...I really need to remember this for next time...if there is a next time.

Oh the pain of it all...

B

PS...Rethread driver side LCA went OK since it was done once before. Small trick is try to rethread while it's still in place. Lots easier. Still needed to pop it off to repack the ball joint grease...quite a bit got lost in messing with it. Passenger side was no problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
OK...Got to "page 418", section 24 of the CVT Transmission Removal service instructions (Fig 297). And there seems to be a bit of an error! I removed the "Drive Plate Bolts" as instructed. And there are only 6! (not 8 ). And, guess what, the other two holes have RIVETS. I found other pictures that show the 6 holes with the 2 rivets. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears I just removed 6 bolts, from an awkward position, for no good reason (and kind of time consuming too). Hopefully, the flywheel comes out with the rivets in place.

I assume I can put them back (or they will already be installed) when I have the replacement flywheel. Won't have to reinstall them through the starter motor hole.

Can't really believe everything the manual says, I guess. Live and learn...

B
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Does anyone know the thread type of the engine hanger bolt? I don't see a bolt, but I can feel a hole for a bolt (just to the rear from the oil filler). I could maybe fabricate a hanger if I bought a bolt, and a turnbuckle, and some properly sized 2X4s, and a drill, and ... It's probably easier to put down a jack and 2X4s to take the weight off the trans mount. I don't have any part of that option either. Maybe I'll try to find a bunch of scrap 2X4s to try with...otherwise, it's call in a mechanic with more stuff than I have.

B
 

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OK...Got to "page 418", section 24 of the CVT Transmission Removal service instructions (Fig 297). And there seems to be a bit of an error! I removed the "Drive Plate Bolts" as instructed. And there are only 6! (not 8 ). And, guess what, the other two holes have RIVETS. I found other pictures that show the 6 holes with the 2 rivets. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears I just removed 6 bolts, from an awkward position, for no good reason (and kind of time consuming too). Hopefully, the flywheel comes out with the rivets in place.

I assume I can put them back (or they will already be installed) when I have the replacement flywheel. Won't have to reinstall them through the starter motor hole.

Can't really believe everything the manual says, I guess. Live and learn...

B
You don't have to fool with the rivets. Just the 6 bolts.

Sam
 

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Discussion Starter #20
if you look closely at Fig 301, the illustration shows 8 bolt holes plus 2 rivets. That's not what I (or you) have seen. Maybe the flywheel component varies a little from year to year. There must be something on the other side of the flywheel that the bolts go to. I haven't seen that illustration, but it must be some type of plate that connects to the IMA motor...???

B
 
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