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There is definitely an O ring supposed to be there, it keeps the grease in the splines in the flywheel.

In the illustration I believe it is #34.
 

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Discussion Starter #42 (Edited)
Well,, that's good to know. The service manual pages don't seem to reference it at all. And the diagram doesn't make it very clear. There was no hint of the O-ring on disassembly, but I guess that shouldn't be a surprise.

I'll see if I can order one for Tuesday! Part #91311-P4V-004.

Thanks Scott
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Discussion Starter #43
Boy...what a mess up. My interpretation was that the sealing ring was the actual transmission main seal, which is what I had such a problem removing and replacing. The manual actually (probably) is referencing the O-Ring (they call it "the sealing ring", part A in Fig 306). I wouldn't have had to mess with the main seal at all. Live and learn...

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It takes a man to admit to his mistakes.
Maybe you were speed reading at the time?
Good luck.
Willie
 

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Discussion Starter #45 (Edited)
Replacing the CVT main oil seal, as planned

More patience would be virtuous. I've obviously decided that, as long as I have the CVT out, it must be a good time to replace the main seal. Now that I know what I must have wanted to do all along, I found the manual pages " (PP 543?, Figs 398 & 399) and found out the right way to remove the seal is from the inside (bad news). I guess the drill and pull technique actually is useful if you don't want to take apart the transmission housing. The good news is the seal install is from the outside. But there is, of course, a special Honda tool for that (kind of bad news). I can try my pen-barrel technique again (prone to messing up), or try to fabricate a usable tool with a plastic pipe or tube. Shouldn't be too hard.

Now, back to the actual seal I was supposed to be dealing with. That's part 91311-P4V-004. Problem there is that, at least so far, I haven't found it "in-stock", so delivery is out 4 or 5 days. And then it's Honda expensive (at least the "list" price...not a big deal). Does anyone know if this is just a round, typical O-Ring, or is it funny shaped (squared body)? If it is typical, I see the spec is for 1.9mm x 9.8mm. That's pretty close to the standard 3/8" (9.25mm) x 1/16" (1.78mm). I expect it's not good, in general, to substitute. But do folks have experience about how critical the dimensions and materials are for this to absolutely only use the Honda product? I can wait and pay, but it will be painful...

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I believe I have the O ring in stock at the shop.

Please PM me your mailing address and phone number. I’ll call you tomorrow.

Scott
 

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Discussion Starter #47
To install the "FLYWHEEL HOUSING INPUT SHAFT OIL SEAL REPLACEMENT", you're supposed to use those Honda "special tools" (attachment, 32 x 35 mm 07746-0010100 and driver 07749-0010000). I came up with my own highly sophisticated and costly ($2.35) home-brew alternative using 3/4" electrical conduit fittings.

Hope it works!

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Discussion Starter #48
So, the new input shaft oil seal arrived, and with a little care, it got installed. It looks about as "flat" as I could get it, and it is indented to the higher end of the spec (~3.5mm), but I think I'm satisfied. Now just waiting for the shaft O-Ring seal to put the flywheel back on. Bit of a delay there (maybe another 2 days).

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Discussion Starter #49 (Edited)
Is there any trick to aligning the flywheel with the drive plate? The 6 small bolts holes on the flywheel have to somehow align with the 6 tapped holes on the drive plate. But I don't see how that is easily done once the CVT is attached to the engine. There seems to be no mention of this issue in the service manual, so I would guess you just keep spinning the flywheel and main shaft independently (assuming this is possible) until you can see a drive plate hole through a flywheel hole...seems a little lame. I can pre-position both the drive plate on the engine and the flywheel on the CVT so the set of holes are somewhat pre-aligned. As long as I can see the flywheel hole, I should be able to find the drive plate hole by turning the main shaft, though I need to be sure I am turning it clockwise.

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I haven't looked at the manual, but what about installing the flywheel first and then stabbing the transmission kike you would a manual tranny?

Sam
 

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I agree same as a manual, get the flywheel etc on the just mate the cvt input shaft into the flywheel splined receptacle.

The tricky thing will be not to dislodge the vital little oring and loose the grease from the cvt/flywheel splines interface...
 

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Discussion Starter #52
Was this your (or anyone's) direct experience with this on the CVT install? I'm hesitant to do it that way (stab in the spline shaft). Even off the car, getting the spline shaft to mate with the flywheel seems pretty difficult. The grease and seal are pretty critical to proper function, and the service pages specifically are showing flywheel first, than connect to drive plate second after tranny is in place. The method of tightening the 6 bolts is very clunky (partial tighten and rotate shaft, in specified order), but at least everything that needs to be aligned is aligned at that point with not too much guessing. I'll try the getting close on initial install and hope I can find the mounting holes with a little rotation.

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Discussion Starter #53 (Edited)
O-Ring

I found some 1.9X9.8 (P10) Metric O-Rings that should be the same as the Honda OEM (NO THEY ARE NOT...SEE BELOW), maybe a better material (Viton vs Nitril). Still not positive they are exactly correct, but I'm seeking opinions on that. They are quite a stretch to get over the spline shaft, but that is probably to be expected.

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PS...abort...abort...I got word from Scott that the OEM O-ring does NOT have a circular cross section. This type of standard (P10) O-ring is not a direct replacement for the Honda part, and I will have to wait to get the right one. Oh well...
 

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That seal placement is giving me thoughts again. Pushed in a little to far. (past the taper of the case), but it will probably be OK.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
It went in further than I wanted because it wouldn't initially stay flat while positioning it. But the spec (per Fig 399 in the service manual) is for it to be in 2.5 - 3.5mm from the flat. I'm at the 3.5mm end, so I'm calling it good at this point.

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PS...the image with the text is the "bad" initial placement that I needed to redo...please ignore...
 

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Discussion Starter #56
I received the elusive o-ring seal (#91311-P4V-004) more quickly than expected (thanks Scott) and was able to do most of the CVT reassembly in an afternoon. The seal is definitely unique (see picts). It might have been possible to fit using the P10 O-Ring. But I need something I know will work for now, and, hopefully, this is it. More discussion about the Honda O-ring later...

The flywheel went on easily and, with plenty of grease in the flywheel hub, on the spline shaft, and on the seal, it fit without difficulties. Next...tranny hoist revisited...

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Discussion Starter #57
After a little thought, I decided on an alternative configuration for my one-board tranny hoist. Using two pulleys took up too much room on top, so I dropped the upper pulley and just used the U Bracket for the rope loops. It worked fine and ended up putting the CVT in the right place to adjust and bolt down. Points: the board is a pretty strong hardwood 1X3. Bigger stuff would probably work, but it needs to be strong. Bolt at the front keeps the board flat on the battery bracket. Plastic ties keep the board from flipping or slipping off the battery bracket. A 1/4" shackle on the lower pulley connects to the lifting ring on the CVT. Not really too complicated...

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Discussion Starter #58
Alignment of holes for the 6 bolts that attach the flywheel to the driveplate did not seem to be a problem. When I got the CVT mounted to the engine, and gave the driveshaft a small turn, the holes just came into alignment. I put it together so they were close, but didn't expect it to be so easy. There may a self-alignment functionality in the grooves that you see on the engine side of the flywheel...not sure. But, even with the holes aligned, it was a pain to put in and tighten the 6 bolts. They seemed to go in really "hard" and I don't remember if they came out with a lot of friction. But it seems to make sense that you don't want them turning themselves out, so I decided to ignore that. Turning the drive shaft 3 or 4 times to torque them in a "crisscross pattern" was definitely time consuming.

Just another side note, it was a lot easier re-installing the ball joints with the half-axles still out. There is room to get in a full blown torque wrench rather than just a closed-end. Of course, I would not have needed to take out the joints in the first place if I had just dropped the lower control arms instead. And that is what I did (unbolt the lower control arms) to get the half-axles back in. I know I also could have unbolted the 2 bolts on the knuckle, but I think that would have had a greater effect on the alignment. I am hoping the LCA method will maintain enough of the front end alignment that I can delay re-doing it right away.

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PS...There was a hassle in that I couldn't get the cotter pins back into the ball joint castle nuts. It appears the cotter pin holes were crushed by the removal tool...drag. I needed to re-drill them and then all was good again. I think I went through this with the hub replacements...but forgot about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #59
It's ALIVE....It's ALIVE...

Bluesight is resurrected from being a rolling shell.Thanks all, especially for letting me know that the problem was more likely the flywheel splines than the innards of the CVT. It was a time consuming project, but not very costly, so it's all good. A learning experience, regardless.

I'll add a CVT Flywheel Splines editorial in a bit...maybe in a separate thread...

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Excellent!! and congrats..
 
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