[Sparky5501]

I've been holding off on asking this cos I've been waiting to buy a service manual from Helminc but they are continually out of stock. Ugh!

So, for those of you lucky enough to have a service manual is there any info on whether the wheel camber can be adjusted on the Insight? I'm afraid the answer will be no... Like most of the modern front drive cars camber is built into the front suspension assembly. Like it is on the Honda Civic. I'd like to decrease the camber 1* to get rid of the outer wheel scrub. (this is also attributed to incorrect toein) But, I'd like to know if it can even at all be done before I make an appointment with my performance alignment shop.

:shock: :?:

 

[Guillermo]

I've been wondering the same thing but I don't have a service manual.
I'd like to get a "mild racing alignment" for auto-slalom.
Basically camber of -1.2 degrees front and 0 degrees rear
Toe of 0 all around.

I'm going to find out how the regular civic guys do it.
I wonder if camber plates are required? or just camber bolts?

 

[Guillermo]

Sparky,
What do you mean by outer wheel scrub?
Are your tires scrubing your fender?
Which tires are you using?

 

[Sparky5501]

I'm going to find out how the regular civic guys do it.
I wonder if camber plates are required? or just camber bolts?

I've looked into it some and most all of the Civic guys are using adjustable upper "A" arms. They have a concentric pivot bolt on the assembly where they can make +/- camber adjustments. I know they have to replace the "A" arm with a kit. But the one thing that is different is the Civic guys are also dropping their cars a couple of inches. I don't plan on dropping the suspension any. Ugh, It would be nice to have the manual to reference. Looking under the front fender with a flashlight in the rain doesn't make for progressive planning.

What do you mean by outer wheel scrub?
Are your tires scrubing your fender?
Which tires are you using?

I guess I should have said "outer tread wear." I corner pretty hard with my Insight so the 0* setting is allowing alot of sidewall roll. So, as you can imagine I scrub off alot of the outer tread. Right now I'm using wide tires to maximize lateral grip on pavement.

-1* of camber up front would be just right to give better cornering adhesion and a ride that is still streetable. I'm not going to touch the rear camber any. It already looks like it's set to 0* from the factory.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

<snip>

So, for those of you lucky enough to have a service manual is there any info on whether the wheel camber can be adjusted on the Insight?

<snip>

the answer is yes, kinda.

P18-6 of the Insight service manual states that the pinch bolts that attach the knuckle with the damper can be replaced with "adjusting" type bolts that will allow +-1/2 deg (1 deg total) adjustment.

PN 90117-S3Y-9000



Now I guess you'll wanna adjust the rear camber too? <g> Sorry its not adjustable. Check for bent parts.

Just be aware that it has been reliably reported on Insight forums that precise alignment is CRITICAL for maximum MPG. And with your self admitted tire mod maybe even more so.

HTH!

 

[Sparky5501]

the answer is yes, kinda.

P18-6 of the Insight service manual states that the pinch bolts that attach the knuckle with the damper can be replaced with "adjusting" type bolts that will allow +-1/2 deg (1 deg total) adjustment.

PN 90117-S3Y-9000

Thanks John,

1°00' is all I need for the front suspension. All I have to do is wait for my copy of the service manual, order up the adjusting bolts, and wait for a sunny day.

 

[Guillermo]

Sweet!
I'm going to order those and get a front end alignment.

 

[Sparky5501]

Hi all I got more info on this...
Looks like from the manual this is fairly straight forward.

Front Camber Adjustment

The front camber can be adjusted by exchanging one or both of the damper pinch bolts with the smaller diameter adjusting bolt(s). The difference between the adjusting bolt diameter and the pinch bolt hole diameter allow a small range of adjustment.

Damper Pinch Bolt --> Adjusting Bolt (PN 90117-S3Y-900) This is a special order part and not stocked at the dealership. My local Honda dealer can order them for $5.31 each, you will need four if you want full adjustability in camber.

Bolt specs: 14 x 1.5mm, 98 N-m (10 kgf-m, 72 lbf-ft)

Remember to get a full alignment after installing these bolts as outlined in the service manual. Also, the toe-in will be out of alignment when you change the camber.

 

[Yves M.]

Camber

Hi,

The rear camber is adjustable just like any Chevrolet Cavalier:

By means of an angled shims usually made of plastic (used to be brass like)

They grind the shim and put it to allow camber in the rear. It is not easy. It is in a form of a 'u' and the 4 holding bolts to the axel needs to be loosen

Yves.

 

[Sparky5501]

Camber Bolt

I got my adjusting bolts yesterday, here is what the adjusting bolt looks like.

I'll be installing all four pretty soon. Let you know how it goes.

 

[Sparky5501]

Installed the new bolts this weekend. It was a breeze. I'd say it only took me 30 min for the whole installation. I set the camber to the maximum I could move the hub assembly. It wasn't very much, maybe 1mm of travel. Visually you would be hard pressed to see a difference in the camber. -1°00' is not terribly noticeable. I'm getting an alignment this week so I'll find out for sure what the true camber is.

 

[Sparky5501]

Post alignment synopsis after installing camber bolts.

Left Front
Camber -0°60"
Toe 0.01"

Right Front
Camber -0°80"
Toe 0.02"

So, the camber bolts don't really add much negative camber to the front wheels. Only enough to get them back into spec if the normal camber is out of wack. I have to say the Insight does handle much better in the corners with the minimal decrease in camber. For an inexpensive mod I'd say it would be worth it. Ordering the bolts along with the precision alignment flies in at just under $100 bucks, so it's not expensive.

I'll look into getting actual adjustable camber plates that mount where the strut tower bushing goes. The Cusco brand looks most promising but I'll have to see if it will fit the Insight strut bolt pattern.

 

[Guillermo]

Thanks for the update:

 

[Kevin Dougherty]

Any idea where we can get a shim to adjust the toe on the rear axle?
Mine was out about 1 degree and I figure a shim approx. 0.014" would do the trick

 

[Yves M.]

Hi,

I went to a local alignment shop recommanded by my dealer. Actually, it was necessary to go there as the dealer had no way to do the job. All other Honda's have an adjusment.

The shop told me that it was an almost standard job. They have generic shims and they simply grind it to the desired thickness (given angle to it)

The sim is in a u shape and it is slipped between the axel and the brake plate by loosening the bolts joining the two.

Only thing the guy told my that it was not done on an Insight before but it was standard job on American cars like the GM Cavalier.

I know that our suspension geometry makes the wheel go forward and baclward as the wheel goes up and down. So a good technician is necessary as the sim needs to be calculated at the right wheel height in relation the the body.

I almost forgot. The shims used to be metallic a few years back (I did put some on my car about 15 years back) but now they are made of plastic. They are supposed to be as strong (or at least strong enough to hold the compression on it)

 

[Sparky5501]

I found universal shims called "EZ SHIMS" for changing toe and Camber on the rear wheels. But the Insight wasn't on the list of vehicles from the web site.

I wonder if they don't have enough info on the Insight yet for the rear wheels.

http://www.specprod.com/PROD_DIR/PROD_PASSCAR.html

Don't know where to get them either cos the site only sells to businesses and professionals.