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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Belatedly I'm going to start a thread. The other thread is getting very long at this point and it is a bit difficult to find stuff. Certainly my profound thanks to insightbuyer for the original electrical work on this conversion. I would never have had the courage to try this until he made it play:D

As this project nears the end, I am struck by the enormous level of mechanical work required to make this approach work! Unfortunately this again is not the easy drop in conversion that many have been waiting for. I do hope to convert another car using Hugh-Falls ideas around using the Sonota Packs. I think that approach may be far easier to fabricate, wire and cool.

My mechanical work on the pack is nearing completion so I thought I'd show some pictures and expose my work for review. PLEASE, if you see anything that raises questions, then offer critique.

I had conceived a 1/4" flat plate mounting approach from early on. I also want to try to integrate my Dabrowski MIMA system. Skipping some of the gory details on layout and room in the IPU, Using the MIMA forced me to install the BCM and MCM under the plate, and the LTO packs on top. The fooler is also underneath and attached to the BCM. The interceptor will be spliced into the MIMA adapter on the MCM, however I will extend the wiring enough to place the PC just at the edge of the through access hole. In this first post, I will show some of the modifications to the junction board required to increase space and to provide better insulation under crash, or other usage. I will also show some of the other details.

The first picture shows the Fooler mounted to the bottom of the AL plate.

The second picture shows die grinder used to recess the main cable routes.

The third picture shows how one of the conductor straps is reshaped to retract it, move it away from the packs and therefore increase insulation space.

The fourth pictue shows the making of teflon connector caps.

The fifth picture shows two of the caps in installed position. Three dabs of epoxy will be added later to keep the discs from being pushed out of the circular connector fittings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
In this second post, I will show the battery on the bench in a more assembled state. One can easily see the 1/4" AL plate, and the spacer and 1/4" bolts by which the packs are mechanically attached to the plate.

Picture one is the MIMA P&P adapter. The Interceptor wiring will be spliced into the adapter so that it can be retained on the plate during any later disassembly of the pack.

Picture two shows the .7" rear plate spacer, epoxied in place for light retention. Obviously the countersunk through bolt normally keeps the spacer in place.

Picture three shows the pack assembled and wired on the bench. I am studying the wiring or the RR and LR packs. I may reverse their location as I think it will lead to neater, more uniform length of the power cables. The black cables are the low side half relative to the main switch and the reds are the high side half. Note the round aluminum rod brace for the junction board made by shortening and flattening one of the original battery braces. (Ignore the spider web of red and black wires in the background. They are part of my my NiMH pack testing equipment. The base plate just happened to be a clean flat place to stage the battery.)

Picture four shows the pack with the center main switch in on position. Hurray!

Now on the some electrical wrap-up on the bench and installation in the car. Getting close:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
A few afterthoughts occur to me. First, my mounting of the BCM and MCM under the plate was driven purely by the need to accommodate the MIMA P&P adapter. Otherwise they could have been mounted in the left front as shown in the layout picture below.

IF one wanted to copy the plate idea and used Peter's IMA C&C instead of MIMA, then I think it would be better to mount all the hardware above the plate. Edgewise space is very tight for the BCM and MCM, but I think that if the front bottom tab were removed, and the back plate spacers not used, then it all fits. I caution that that approach requires some more prototyping to be certain of the room.

Another BCM/MCM mounting approach would be to cut a rectangular hole of approximately 4 x 7 inches in the plate and allow the two boxes to protrude very slightly through the hole, providing more room to the IPU lid. An aluminum angle bracket can be used on the bottom side to securely mount the boxes to the plate. I had tried this, but it did not leave enough room for my MIMA adapter cables. Would probably work with Peter's IMA C&C.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Wow! Trying to figure out how to arrange packs to even out cable lengths is a bewildering problem. It is compounded by the fact that there are several terminal variations in the Fit packs, and two different mounting frames, with different mounting hole spacings. As one ponders the problem, it becomes clear that at least one cable must reach from the junction board to the farthermost subpack, so there really isn't anything that is ideal in terms of cable layout or length. There may be some arrangement that is near optimum, but it isn't revealing itself easily or quickly. Not a showstopper in any case :confused:

Small setback on the epoxyed spacers also. They don't stick very well, so I think I'll have to roughen up the plate surface a bit to get good adhesion from the epoxy.
 

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I don't want to clutter up your thread, so I'll just keep it simple by saying Nice work! Keep it up, looking forward to the finished setup :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
LTO Pack Layout

Laid out the pack high current wiring again. Found a cleaner, more equalength layout for the cables. Also found some very nice terminal covers to avoid risk of shorts.

The first picture shows the new layout of the cables. There are several possible ways of laying out the cables, but I finally realized that the best way to achieve a clean layout with nearly equal lenth cable was to split the pack nearest the junction board into two halves. For a 3 pack configuration, at least one pack must be split anyway.

The second picture is of the nice terminal caps I found at West Marine. I could find no specifications on line and they are likely designed for 12V boat systems, but at least they will protect the terminals from careless tool shorting. They are Blue Sea Systems part #4008. West Marine is a chain store at least on the east coast and possible nationwide. They had them in their store, but don't list them online.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
So, got it all wired up and installed in the car - doesn't work.

The OBDII C&C shows two codes, P1647 and P1648.

So I do the blink codes since each code has multiple subcodes, but the lights on the dash don't all blink the same blink codes.

CE light blinks constant 69. That doesn't correspond to either of the above OBDII C&C codes?????

IMA light blinks a 64 followed by 2shorts, followed by 6 longs. That's strange. Three different subcodes for the P1647???

In the service manual there is a P1648(64) which is "BCM module communication signal circuit problem." Seems that might be saying that my interceptor isn't working properly. It does seem to have power as the LED is lit.

I'm lost. Tips??
 

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Probably the interceptor is not wired correctly.

I'm assuming you have a working 5V supply from the MCM, and you can measure 5v at the power input on the interceptor board?

Post some pics of your interceptor and how it is wired into your harness.

You have an orange and white wire from the BCM into the interceptor (From BCM) , then an orange and white wire out of the interceptor into the MCM (To MCM).

Are sure your signals are going into the right connector and out of the right connector.

Try swapping the wires round at the input and output connectors so that if you have orange into pin 1 try it into pin 2 and put the white wire into pin 1.

Do the same for In and Out.

If you have orange into 1 on the input, orange must be connected to 1 on the output and vice versa.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Thanks Peter, will do. I did triple check before closing off access with the plate, but obviously something is wrong somewhere there.

I think I have the 5V correct or I wouldn't have the interceptor LED, but it is easy to check since my interceptor in on top of the plate. I can also the wire swaps on J4 and J5 again since interceptor is accessible.

It seemed fairly easy to wire it correctly since I used the same wire color/codes in extending the wires, but careless mistakes do happen.

Can I exchange the orange/whites between J4 and J5, i.e. reverse the I/O without fear of damaging the interceptor?

LATER:
Realized that I used the wrong terminology above. I see that the I/0 is J3, so it's the reversal of wires between J4 and J5 I'm asking about - forget the I/O wiring.

Also realized of further reading that I should probably put jumper between I/O pins 1,2 and 4.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
OK, found one thing I had overlooked. Finally found a picture in the insightowner showing the wiring of his interceptor.

Also found your post 2 of the Mini-interceptor thread indicating that jumpers were required on the I/O plug. Let me try that first. Maybe no problem other than adequate research:(
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Installed jumpers on I/O. Still doesn't work. I see that insight buyer used twisted pairs for the orange/whites. Are these lines susceptiable to noise?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'll be doing that today. I'll have to disassemble the battery cabling and remove the plate to get at the MCM and BCM plugs for pictures and checking.
(We are in midst of cold snow storm here, so I will have to manage my time in garage carefully. Low on kerosene for the heater and roads impassible.)

Gotta do that anyway, because at this point I have tried every permutation of orange/white & left/right on J4 and J5 - there being 4 combinations I believe.

By looking at insightbuyer pictures, I did determine that I initially had O/W reversed on both J4 and J5. Do have power correctly wired and green LED is blinking.

Is there any information conveyed by the LED? It is now blinking. Think I saw it steady on at least once.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Ok, there are the pictures I think you are requesting, plus one.

From the top view(first picture) of the interceptor you can see the tape tags. I have to disconnect the interceptor to remove the plate, so you have to follow the tags to the plug locations. I hope this will be clear.

He says with a sheepish expression of embarasment, "As I was disassembling the system, it struck me that the MIMA adapter is probably creating broken lines which are only completed through the MIMA main board, which is not installed. This may be source of all the problems:(
 

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OK Thanks for the pics.

I have no idea about the MIMA adapter, although I would doubt the BATTSCI lines are affected by it as MIMA does not use them asfaik.
Those signals probably pass thru unmolested.

However other lines including CmdPwr, Mamode1, Mamode2, may well be and that def would cause specific faults.

Is the green led flashing rapidly on the interceptor?
If it is, then you have the wires the right way round etc and it's receiving data from the BCM and sending out to the MCM.
If it's not flashing swap orange/white wires on J4 & 5. I don't mean connect the input to the outpt.
I mean if orange is on pin 1 swap it with the white on pin 2.

I'll look at my I/O notes etc at this end.

[Edit] Apologies from me as well. I had the I/O J3 in my head the wrong way round.

On J3 (I/O) You do need to connect pins 1 & 2 to pin 4, this is because a logic high level is regarded as a fault on the over/under V inputs 1 & 2.
These are pulled high inside the pic by default to detect broken wires, so leaving them unconnected means they are pulled high which disables assist/regen!
By connecting pins 1 & 2 to pin 4 (Gnd) it pulls them down (no fault) and allows normal operation.

You may need to update the firmware in the interceptor with your pic programmer, there is always a possibility it has become corrupted.
Do the other stuff first..
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Is the green led flashing rapidly on the interceptor?
If it is, then you have the wires the right way round etc and it's receiving data from the BCM and sending out to the MCM.
If it's not flashing swap orange/white wires on J4 & 5. I don't mean connect the input to the outpt.
I mean if orange is on pin 1 swap it with the white on pin 2.
Yes, the green LED was flashing rapidly before I disassembled the system. I did initially have those O/W wires reversed but seeing insightbuyer pictures set that straight. Incidentally, I had already installed the short between pins 1,2 and 4 on the I/O jack in the interval while I was waiting on your response.

I'm convinced that the MIMA adapter has caused problems. If one gives it just a bit of logical thought, some of the MCM lines must be disrupted and routed to the MIMA main processor board via the interface cable. So, sticking the adapter on the front of the MCM, as I did, must cause problems with broken lines.

I want to run a few checks on my much molested relay board then I'll be reassembling it all later today. Thanks for your attention.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Been getting P1576 code and no action. Think I found problem in my fooler wiring. Examining it carefully I discovered that I had reversed the two battery wires at the board, essentially powering it in reverse. Very stupid. My excuse - I'm under a lot of stress:(

Unfortunately, this will have entirely reversed the tap voltage levels on the BCM. Damage? Haven't opened that lid yet.

Peter, will this have damaged the LED? Can I just check that like any conventional diode? Forward vs. back resistance?
 

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Now you have corrected your BCM fooler wiring error, is the led on? are you still getting P1576?
Have you cleared the P1576 by doing a proper IMA 12v reset?

The input impedance of the BCM taps is very high, and the resistor fooler is itself a 100k resistor effectively so any reverse currents will have been very small. Damage unlikely i think.
The led may even have worked to prevent reverse current flow, although that may have been damaged by it.
If it doesn't light up when the fooler is correctly connected and switched on then replace it.

The MCM HV input is a bit different, but again probably high impedance, although I have never measured it.
It is not protected by the fooler resistors as it connects to the ends, only the fooler led stands between it and reversed input voltage.

You may have damaged your MCM...
If you still have P1576 after fixing your fooler wiring and 12v resetting etc try a different MCM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Now you have corrected your BCM fooler wiring error, is the led on? are you still getting P1576?
Have you cleared the P1576 by doing a proper IMA 12v reset?
I probably posted too soon. I discovered the problem late last night and did not try to correct anything, so decent answers must wait until later today. As a matter of routine, I always reset after any work because I disconnect 12V and switch IMA off before starting work.

The input impedance of the BCM taps is very high, and the resistor fooler is itself a 100k resistor effectively so any reverse currents will have been very small. Damage unlikely i think.
The led may even have worked to prevent reverse current flow, although that may have been damaged by it.
If it doesn't light up when the fooler is correctly connected and switched on then replace it.
Good information to have. I do have some LED spares.

The MCM HV input is a bit different, but again probably high impedance, although I have never measured it.
It is not protected by the fooler resistors as it connects to the ends, only the fooler led stands between it and reversed input voltage.

You may have damaged your MCM...
If you still have P1576 after fixing your fooler wiring and 12v resetting etc try a different MCM.
Because fooler and MCM HV were wired in parallel from IMA battery, the MCM was not reversed. The MCM should be ok, but yet will swap out if P1576 persists. The only reversal was in the mistaken wiring to the fooler board itself.

Will provide results of corrections and retesting later today. Thanks as always.
 
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