[MattP]

Hello everyone,

I spoke with my dealer today and I put a deposit down on an 04 with a 5 speed and an A/C, 1st choice blue and 2nd choice silver. The first thing he asked me was why didn't I want the Civic Hybrid. He was very curious about that. Anyway, now I have to wait 30-60 days before I get my car. What am I going to do in the mean time :roll: . Any suggestions?

Matt

 

[Rick Reece]

Matt,
Is this an 04 or 05? Production on the 04's stopped so either the de4aler is going to try and find the Insight you want from another dealer or it will be a early model 05. Either way the 60 day wait doesn't make much sense (too early for the 05's and why wait if he can work a deal with another dealer). Have fun, RIck

 

[Arsenic1250]

yeah that makes no since, when I bought my 2003, he called around and found it in tampa that same day. then it took 2 days to bring it up to orlando...

yeah they asked me why not a civic hybrid, i told them it is too plain for me. Then I had to argue with them for 2 hours to get the kelly blue book for my SUV...

 

[b1shmu63]

I had to explain my reasoning to the salesman for about an hour myself. I wanted a sporty 2 seater. OK, I am middle aged, but a single guy driving a four door just adds insult to injury. I wanted to replace my aging CRX and achieve double the mileage as I enjoy living in the country. The Insight makes a very visible environmental statement and creates many conversations promoting conservation. I love aircraft and an aluminum car is my emotional substitute for one. You don't see many steel aircraft do you? :wink:

No regrets, only an improved Insight could tempt me. That might happen in 05.

 

[MattP]

My dealer tells me that it's an 04 and that it's coming directly from the factory. He said that he hasn't heard anything about Honda stopping production, he has to be telling the truth becuase I already put the deposit down and have done all the paperwork for financing.

He tried to get me a car from another dealership, but he said that everyone is sold out.

Matt

 

[Arsenic1250]

yeah because probably most dealership order only 1 or 0 insights.

I live in florida, and no one had no one except a dealership in tampa.

 

[Dgate]

Just ordered my Insight,now what?

MattP

Just out of curiosity what was the reason for your choice of the Insight over the civic, was it max efficiency or sporty shape?
If the dealer provides any feedback to Honda it would be nice if your comments where biased towards efficiency as this type of input might encourage Honda to keep or improve the Insight.This of course is really the main reason for the concept in the first place since there are no end of sporty normal cars already on the market.

Dgate

 

[ethicalpaul]

>>He said that he hasn't heard anything about Honda stopping production,

The folks on the board don't mean stopping production forever (like it sounds like your dealer means)--they mean stopping production for the year. When you are only selling 2000 cars in a year, it doesn't make sense to keep the line dribbling 10 cars a day all year, it makes more sense to run the line full tilt until your sales projection is fulfilled, then shut it down or use it to make your other cars that actually...um...sell.

>>he has to be telling the truth becuase I already put the deposit down and have done all the paperwork for financing.

Ahh yes, no dealer could ever be dishonest or stupid enough to take a deposit for a car he couldn't provide! That could NEVER happen!!!
There is a sales theory that you should do whatever you can to get someone closer to buying *something, anything* rather than let them walk out the door, even if you know you can't fulfill their order.

After a few months go by and he has been shining you on, who knows, maybe he'll get word of an incoming 2005 "...in just a few more weeks--you've waited this long, you might as well get a brand new one for this model year--it will just be 2-3 weeks, I promise..."

>>He tried to get me a car from another dealership, but he said that everyone is sold out.

That indicates that production is indeed stopped, because how else could they sell out of a car that sells so poorly? Don't get me wrong, I love the insight and want to buy one myself (as soon as I can justify getting rid of my beautiful 47MPG TDI Beetle), but the sales numbers are horrible. It is a very bad reflection on people in general and americans specifically that a nice little car that gets 70MPG can't sell.

PB

 

[dan]

Hi Matt-

Congratulations! What now? Try to think about something else, to make the time go faster. But when you can’t, come back here and comb through the old posts…and oh yes…memorize the encyclopedia. There will be a test later! :wink:

When we plunked down our $500 deposit the dealer was able to tell us which day our car was going to be produced. The only question was how long I would take to get here. (2-4wks.). There was no second choice about color. Our experience was very different from that of david who was going through the same process in SoCal at the same time…I have no idea why.

I suspect that a possible source of dealer vagueness may be the change of production facilities: http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=411. Could it be that Honda has been “hedging it’s bets” about 04 production while it transfers operations to its’ new facility? (I admit it, seems unlikely, as Honda is known for its’ production efficiency.) Maybe things are going well at the new factory, so quietly 04 productions may resume and at some point the boss will step into the new production line and start slapping 05 VINs on the newborns.

What to do? I would give the dealer a couple of weeks and then give him a call to see what he has heard. See if he can give you a production date. Ask him if he knows where the car is being produced. Personally I have a low tolerance for what I perceive as intentional deception. I know you are anxious to get your new car, but if I felt I was being strung along by a dealer I would take my business elsewhere, even if it meant waiting another couple of months for delivery, (you’d probably have to wait anyway.) :!:

 

[jrrs]

My dealer tells me that it's an 04 and that it's coming directly from the factory. He said that he hasn't heard anything about Honda stopping production, he has to be telling the truth becuase I already put the deposit down and have done all the paperwork for financing.

yeah, either your dealer's on crack or *my* dealer's on crack. i ordered an '04 back in mid february and the VIN for it still hasn't shown up on any of my dealership's stock or whatever, so we're still doing this dealertrade with one from north carolina. we could not get hide nor hair of the car from honda.

he might have an ace up his sleeve, but he more than likely has just air up his sleeve.

he may have very well heard nothing about the stopping production, which just might mean he doesn't have his ear close to the ground as much. --- isn't this the same many who interrogated you about why you don't want a civic hybrid?.... :/

the 30-60 is probably so he can *find* one... you will have much better luck if you don't mind getting A/C.

 

[MattP]

Thanks for all the replies!

I really trust my dealer, because he is the only one who would help me. I talked to many Honda dealerships and none of them could get me an insight. I asked him why he is able to and he said that his dealership has some award for having the best customer service (I can't remember what it is called), and I guess this gives him some sort of advantage. I think he does infact have an "ace up his sleeve". This Honda dealership is supposed to be one of the best in the country and I don't think they would jerk me around, they have a very good reputation.

Also, he wasn't interrogating me about the civic hybrid (many of the other dealerships did try and get me to buy the civic, but not this dealer). He was just curious as to why I wanted the Insight. I told him it's beacuse of the looks, it gets better gas mileage, and I mostly drive alone.

Thanks again, and I will keep you all updated as I find out more information.

Matt

 

[james]

"...that a nice little car that gets 70MPG can't sell."

But if it doesn't sell, how come none of the dealers can find one? We've said it before: Honda doesn't WANT to sell more than a certain number, because they cost more to make than the list price.

 

[dan]

James-

I agree with you 99%. But I think that even if we saw Insights advertised in the weekly auto section of the paper with big multicolored banners like “BELOW DEALER INVOICE!” there would only be so much of a market for 2 seaters that are not marketed directly at the testosterone crazed/midlife crisis crowds.

 

[ethicalpaul]

"...that a nice little car that gets 70MPG can't sell."

But if it doesn't sell, how come none of the dealers can find one? We've said it before: Honda doesn't WANT to sell more than a certain number, because they cost more to make than the list price.

I've never seen evidence of that, and I don't believe it. Yes, I have no doubt the margin is a lot slimmer than a civic or accord, but I do not believe that they are actually having a loss on each one. Show me.

 

[dan]

Hi ethicalpaul-

You may be right that the increased cost of limited production and aluminum parts alone does not increase the production costs enough to cause Honda to loose $, but when accountants come in and underwrite even a portion of the development costs, I suspect that it allows the loosing $ claim to be considered factual.

It may be that it is only a matter of decreased markup that inclines Honda to try to sell other cars.

 

[b1shmu63]

It has been stated that the Honda all electric vehicles cost Honda 300,000 dollars a piece to build. (They only sold 300 of them in 3 years) Those that have one have a real collectors item now. Honda is using a few of them for Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Yes the cost of research is high, but not doing research can mean going out of business. ( you can sell obsolete technology with lots of advertising, but it catches up with you in the end)

 

[ethicalpaul]

It has been stated that the Honda all electric vehicles cost Honda 300,000 dollars a piece to build. (They only sold 300 of them in 3 years)

You must be including the cost of all the R&D and tooling for that model, which is beyond (I think) what any of us are talking about for the Insight.

Yes, the company has to count those costs, but those costs do not keep the company from wanting to sell a lot of a model. Those costs provide incentive for the company to sell a lot of the car, to make up for those "fixed" costs.

What I have heard people say (and what I don't believe) is that the "incremental" or "variable" cost of each Insight is more than the sale price, which would cause Honda to lose money on every sale making it impossible to "make it up in volume"

Having said all that, I can agree that when compared with other models, each Insight sale represents a "loss" for Honda which could have sold a more profitable model instead. However, I doubt that Honda is hoping to *not sell* very many Insights, or any of their cars, which was proposed earlier in the thread.

 

[james]

"...but I do not believe that they are actually having a loss on each one. Show me."

Can't do that, since I don't think Honda makes their cost data public, and even if they did I'm not an accountant But it has been widely reported, and more or less tacitly admitted by Honda execs.

As for why they would, it's the same principle as any other loss leader in marketing: sell one product really cheap to bring in customers who will buy other stuff.

 

[dan]

Hi Ethicalpaul-

I agree with James. Notice how most folks that talk about their experience in a showroom describe getting steered to an HCH? There are also the major bragging rights about producing the “most fuel efficient car in America”. There is also the “youthful image” of the small sporty looking car. Toyota feels that they are hampered by their “stodgy image” in the US so they are marketing their youth oriented Scion models under a new brand to give them a better chance. I am sure Honda does not want to be seen as an “old folks” brand. I can hear you saying that this is all circumstantial evidence (it is!) but put together it makes an argument for keeping the car in production even if the incremental cost of each unit is slightly more than the sale price. It also explains why they really don’t want to sell very many, why they don’t advertise them, and why they keep production low enough so that those of us that want them have to work a bit to get one.

 

[b1shmu63]

I've read that in all the years that the Austin Mini was produced it never made a profit for the company. Ask anyone to name an Austin model and what comes to mind?