Honda Insight Forum banner

1 - 20 of 56 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
so i bought another honda insight, a 2000 model. and after i put a new IMA (the 12v battery was disconnected for a week) battery in it the leanburn started acting weird. whenever leanburn kicks in, it keeps on lowering the fuel given to the engine until i have no power and start losing speed. if i give it more gas, it will give some of the fuel back to the engine, but not a lot, and i still lose speed, and the car starts shaking if i do that. the only way i can stop it is if i let go of the gas pedal and then press it again, or if i floor it.

what can cause this? and how can i fix it?

i am currently blaming it on the computer, will a dealer update fix it? i have an 01 insight as a parts car, (i used to drive it but it broke) can i swap the computers between the cars?
could it be something else? like bad sparkplugs? (just an idea)
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
10,656 Posts
As ALWAYS, with ANY elec. problem on a G1, make damn sure your 12V battery is fully charged. As a precaution you can "LOAD" test it.

HTH
Willie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
the 12v is at 12.6 volts on idle, under load (headlights and radio) it reads 11.7 volts. i guess i should replace it. i didn't think of checking that because the battery is only 1 year old.
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
10,656 Posts
Have it charged back to "FULL" and get back to me. After "full" load test it.
12V battery life is a crapshoot. I just replaced a battery in my Pickup that was 5 years old, The battery in my Chevy is 13 years old........go figure.
Even NEW batteries are only charged to around 70-75% of capacity from the mfg..

Willie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
652 Posts
Sounds more like you need to clean the EGR Plate, replace the egr valve, install properly indexed spark plugs and possibly set the valve lash to me

The 12v battery should not have much adue about this
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,822 Posts
i bought another honda insight, a 2000 model. after i put a new IMA battery in it (the 12v battery was disconnected for a week) leanburn started acting weird. whenever leanburn kicks in, it keeps lowering fuel until i have no power and start losing speed....
How are you determining that you're in lean burn?

My guess would be the weirdness is related to things that happened when you installed the new battery and had the 12V disconnected. For example, disconnecting the 12V resets some computer things and it can take a few drive cycles for them to 'recalibrate'. Maybe the pack wasn't fully charged and it's still charging - background charge - and power from the ICE is being sucked away? In general, maybe the IMA is still in 'state of charge determination mode'. What's the BAT gauge at? etc etc. 12V battery and grounds are always good things to check first, as Willie mentions.

The 12v battery should not have much adue about this
The 12V battery is charged by the engine and IMA, so if it's flaky it can affect driving performance, plus, the IMA system and other things use the grounds as a voltage reference or something like that, so if the grounds are flaky the voltage reference is flaky - so IMA performance is flaky, which impacts locomotive force, which affects 'lean burn', etc, etc... Basically, the Insight is a serious cluster when it comes to the intertwining of electric side and gas side, it's not like a normal car. That's why 12V warbles can have such an impact on 'driving performance'...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
ok, so i changed the 12v battery with a new one, and it still does it. i have not been able to clean the EGR valve and plate yet, i will do that tuesday
EQ1, i know that it is leanburn because i drove a 01 insight for 2 years. i could always feel when it goes into leanburn. the car will all of a sudden feel a little sluggish without you letting go of the gas pedal, but it still maintained speed. usually i see the MPG gauge go from ~50mpg to ~70mpg. this time however it does not stop at 70MPG, it continues past 150mpg. and when i hit the gas again it will go back to ~60mpg, but i will still be low on power, and the car starts shaking. it is almost as if only one cylinder is working. if i am wrong and this is not leanburn, please educate me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,822 Posts
Sounds like lean burn, sounds like you're good at identifying it... You might try unplugging the EGR electrical connector just to rule that out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Eq1, can you show me a picture of what i have to disconnect? I just want to make sure that i unplug the correct plug.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,822 Posts
It's just the grey connector attached to the EGR valve - that goldish canister looking thing with a black top, right in the center front of the engine, left of airbox, about 2/3 the size of a can of soda...

OK, here ya go (I wish insightcentral wouldn't resize images, the quality comes out bad)...
 

·
Engine-Off-Coast
Joined
·
1,767 Posts
I have an Insight with aero mods, a cleaned EGR plate, and new properly indexed NGK plugs, and RE92s.

Even with everything right, lean burn is weak (even at the lower MPG range of LB) and the car inevitably slows down when in lean burn unless on like a flat or downhill.

When the car is slowing down you said it starts to shudder... is this possibly you're in too tall of a gear for the slower speed and you need to downshift?

Another thing, you said the IMA was changed, perhaps your car is giving you background charge? You'd be able to see if that was happening with OBDIIC&C.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Natalya, i have owned an insight for 2 years before and i know what leanburn is supposed to feel like. This is my other insight which is acting differently, i loose speed even if i am going down hill, and the shaking only happens if i add gas after leanburn kicks in. It does not matter what gear i am in, 3rd gear at 45mph on flat it still happens. And this happens even if the ima is full, so no background charging.
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
10,656 Posts
Maybe it is time for a "run" to Scott's for a "hands on evaluation."

It is hard to "see" the background charge on the SOC. A lot of times, you MAY have background charge without any bars showing on the SOC.

HTH
Willie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,822 Posts
It is hard to "see" the background charge on the SOC. A lot of times, you MAY have background charge without any bars showing on the SOC.
I think you may be confusing the CHRG/regen gauge with the BAT/SoC gauge (your "SOC"). Though it's true most of the time you won't see any bars on the CHRG/regen gauge during background charge, most of the time you won't have any background charge if the BAT/SoC gauge is full (19 or 20 bars); and you'll always have a background charge if the BAT/SoC gauge shows no bars - unless there's some fluky problem with the IMA... OP says his pack is full, which should mean he's seeing a full BAT/SoC gauge. The only time I've ever seen a background charge when the BAT/SoC gauge was full was when it was really really cold out...

Keep in mind, OP, that a full BAT gauge indeed has to be truly full, 19 or 20 bars. Anything lower and you can still have a background charge. If you want to check whether there's a background charge at any given moment, downshift to get RPM above 3000 or so and go light on the throttle - you should see 4 green CHRG bars if there's a background charge going...

* * *

Now, what is the trigger and/or 'correlating parameter' for lean burn? Is it the 'LOD' parameter, which depends on throttle position (TPS or TPV) and manifold absolute pressure (MAP), right? I'm trying to think of a reason why lean burn could be extra wimpy while everything else seems normal... Lean burn triggers under the right conditions (like engine warm enough, engine load low enough, etc.), then it will be maintained as long as I think engine load (i.e. TPV and MAP) is low enough... Seems like any problem that affects how well the engine is running, how much power its putting out, will impact the effectiveness of lean burn. Maybe something's amiss - clogging CAT, bad plugs?, etc. - and the problem only becomes apparent under lean burn conditions, when the engine is running on the ragged edge?... Doesn't seem like there could be a lean burn specific issue - like a faulty throttle position sensor or reading or MAP that would affect only lean burn and not normal running, but I don't know...
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
10,656 Posts
Nope I'm not confused. Same gauge, different nomenclature.
Reckon I should have said "without any regen bars showing on the SOC."

Additionally, Lean Burn will happen around 20" of vacuum to around 10" of vacuum. It's a delicate touch. When I go into lean burn at 20" I gently increase the throttle to 10" of vacuum and it will a accelerate a little and seems to stay in lean burn longer. Maybe he is at the 20" vacuum position, a very low throttle opening.
Willie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,822 Posts
Nope I'm not confused. Same gauge, different nomenclature. Reckon I should have said "without any regen bars showing on the SOC."
Apparently your are - there are no regen bars on the state of charge gauge... The gauge labeled "BAT" represents the state of charge of the pack. The gauge labeled "CHRG" represents when/how much power is being used to charge the pack during regen and 'background' charging...
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
10,656 Posts
Maybe you are talking about a G2. I am referring to a G1.

Willie
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
10,656 Posts
Yep!

Willie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
ok, so update.

1.replaced 12v bat. Result: still happens, but now the 1st time it goes into leanburn it runs just fine. every time after that it does not work. (could be a fluke)

2. cleaned ERG plate. Result: no change

3. did engine oil change (the previous owner put waaaay to much oil in the engine) Result: engine runs smoother, but problem still occurs.

4. unplugged EGR valve from power source to isolate problem. Result: no change.

what are my next options?
could there be something wrong with the vacuum line?
should i change my spark plugs?
 
1 - 20 of 56 Posts
Top