Honda Insight Forum banner

41 - 60 of 63 Posts

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
11,325 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #43
Willie, i did try the different driving style. It only worked for the rest of that day. The next day it made no difference what rpm i am at.
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
11,325 Posts
OK, next step, swap the EGR valve.

Willie
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
11,325 Posts
Don't unplug it, change it. We are doing a process of elimnation.
Plug it in after changing. Only takes about 15 minutes for the job.

HTH
Willie
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
11,325 Posts
oefenab;
Any update on the problem?
The EGR valve could be partially open. Unplugging it doesn't take it out of the circuit in that circumstance.

HTH
Willie
 

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
1,194 Posts
Lean burn vs. MPG

yesterday I was monitoring A/F and noticed that the mpg readout on the dash doesn't always correlate with the LB. Sometimes I would be in LB and the mpg would read 70-80 mpg, and other times I was not in LB and the same figure showed. I understand sometimes it takes a minute for LB to kick in. Can someone please explain if LB correlates with mph on the dash display since I know LB will produce better mileage.
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
11,325 Posts
Lean Burn is mainly dependent on the "LOAD" on the engine.
Other things have to be completed with the "programming" before lean burn is actuated.
Then it is matter of driving skills to make it last longer, before the "purge" takes effect.
The FCD is very deceptive at times.

HTH
Willie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #50
i replaced the ERG last week, it did not fix the problem. i will replace the fuel strainer as soon as it arrives. if the fuel strainer does not fix it, what should i try next?

sorry for the delayed response, i had a busy weekend.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,766 Posts
yesterday I was monitoring A/F and noticed that the mpg readout on the dash doesn't always correlate with the LB. Sometimes I would be in LB and the mpg would read 70-80 mpg, and other times I was not in LB and the same figure showed. I understand sometimes it takes a minute for LB to kick in. Can someone please explain if LB correlates with mph on the dash display since I know LB will produce better mileage.
You can maintain 80mpg with or without lean burn. The difference will be in the pedal position, and how open the throttle is.

Example of how lean burn works in my car:

Let's say the car is warmed up, weather is good, and I'm cruising at 55mph. I'm averaging 80mpg, and the engine is at about 60% load. If I let off the pedal slightly (such that the gauge reads 100mpg), the fuel economy will continue to rise up to ~130-140mpg without moving the pedal any farther. The car will then begin to lose speed. I then press the pedal back in until I'm at ~90% load (pedal is pressed much farther) but getting the same 80mpg. I'm now cruising in lean burn.

Learn burn is slightly more efficient than stoichiometric burn. It seems to me that at the same speed, you might get an extra 5mpg when in LB. However, if you press the pedal too far (exceed ~90% load) the car will drop out of LB. This can be observed when you have a rapid drop from ~75mpg to ~50mpg on the display, even though you haven't moved your foot. The car will then begin to accelerate, because it has more power.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,944 Posts
Problem cured

The OP brought the the car to see a f I could figure out the problem.

I drove the car a great deal with an OBDII C&C hooked up and changed setttings to monitor different things on the car: O2 voltage, tps, EGR, fuel trims, AFR, etc... I could see no odd voltages or signals.

At one point the car finally threw a P0420. I thought this might be the problem. Pulled and inspected the cats, they were not falling apart or crumbling. Reinastalled them with an anti-fouler. Drove car still not fixed.

On 4-9-18 forum member “evox” posted about the same or similar problem, that he had changed an O2 sensor from Bosch back to NTK and his problem was solved.

The next morning I pulled the O2 sensor which was an NTK, I believe original with about 119,000 miles on it. I put in a used know good, not too old NTK sensor and drove the car. The problem was solved, the car ran great. This car never threw a code for an O2 sensor.

Thank you very much to “evox” for posting.

HTH,
Scott
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
11,325 Posts
Thanks for the closure Scott. I hope you are enjoying your trip.
Under most circumstances the O2 sensor should be replaced at 100k. That is per the MFG. They will lose a slight amount of "calibration".

On my "Innovate" A/F gauge sensor they recommend re-calibration every 20K for street driving. 10K if turbo equipped.

Maybe the OP will respond for a final evaluation.

Get back safely soon so we can get busy.

Willie
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
331 Posts
Does lean burn work with IMA disabled, does it not work, or does it work on some cars and not others?
My 01 CVT with retrofitted JDM lean burning ECM lean burns with IMA battery, junction board, mcm and bcm completely removed. This is indicated via odbiic&c led indicator, FCD mpg reading, and “seat of the pants” stutter feeling.

I think I recall my 00 MT failing to LB when SOC was empty and background charging was active. Once background charge recovered and disabled LB would operate as normal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #55
Hi, i can confirm that the problem is fixed. I have been driving this car with a bad O2 for so long that i forgot how smooth the car can drive.
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
11,325 Posts
Thank you for the final "closure" and evaluation.

Willie
 

·
Registered
2000 Gen 1 5spd with A/C
Joined
·
14 Posts
I'm a bit confused. So I'm having the same problem, EGR plate was cleaned, valve was swapped, I don't know if Willie remembers but I had a post on cleaning my EGR plate, well the P0420 code hadn't come back for a while but on my drive this morning it flicked on. Are you all referring to the CAT O2 sensors? Or is it somewhere else and I'm just confused.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,944 Posts
The car in this original post had a bad primary O2 sensor. The sensor was the early 5 wire type that was replaced. The only sensor that should be used for this on the 2000-01 models should be the NTK 24301.

It’s nice that you’ve cleaned and changed the EGR system and valve, but that won’t fix the problem.

If you are experiencing a P0420 code, you potentially have a catalytic convert issue or an issue with the software in the ECU. A P0420 code is, catalytic converter below efficiency. The second O2 sensor is what reads the exhaust gas after the first cat. If the exhaust gas is dirty the second O2 sensor tells the ECU the catalytic converter is not doing its job and to send a P0420 code, triggering a check engine light. You could also actually have a bad catalytic converter. In many cases if the catalytic converter is bad its starts to crumble internally and clog the exhaust. If you have clogged exhaust, the car typically has a bad lack of power under acceleration. A crumbling catalytic converter and a plugged exhaust usually cause fuel trims to wildly vary. If you have an OBDII device and set it to read fuel trims, you should check this.

Scott
 

·
Registered
2000 Gen 1 5spd with A/C
Joined
·
14 Posts
The car in this original post had a bad primary O2 sensor. The sensor was the early 5 wire type that was replaced. The only sensor that should be used for this on the 2000-01 models should be the NTK 24301.

It’s nice that you’ve cleaned and changed the EGR system and valve, but that won’t fix the problem.

If you are experiencing a P0420 code, you potentially have a catalytic convert issue or an issue with the software in the ECU. A P0420 code is, catalytic converter below efficiency. The second O2 sensor is what reads the exhaust gas after the first cat. If the exhaust gas is dirty the second O2 sensor tells the ECU the catalytic converter is not doing its job and to send a P0420 code, triggering a check engine light. You could also actually have a bad catalytic converter. In many cases if the catalytic converter is bad its starts to crumble internally and clog the exhaust. If you have clogged exhaust, the car typically has a bad lack of power under acceleration. A crumbling catalytic converter and a plugged exhaust usually cause fuel trims to wildly vary. If you have an OBDII device and set it to read fuel trims, you should check this.

Scott
Well yes I'm aware of the code being a CAT bank 1 below efficiency. But KLR3CYL had the same thing happen. His threw a P0420 and that wasn't the issue. Granted I can check the CATs, but when I previously pulled the CAT O2 sensors and peeked inside and it looked okay to me, I didn't see any crumbling. Assuming that's not the issue and it's the sensor, I would replace the second CAT sensor correct? Or am I still misunderstanding. Feel free to correct me if I am.
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
11,325 Posts
Try a spacer on the second cat sensor for the 0420 code for a starter. Easiest and cheapest.
 
41 - 60 of 63 Posts
Top