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Linsight Designer
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This thread is for any and all questions related to the 47Ah LiBCM project during the Open Beta period.
I will also start publishing my development updates here.

This thread - along with the entire 47Ah FoMoCo project - is in early alpha testing.
There is QTY1 prototype unit running in my car.
Open Beta ETA: 2022, late November

Fill out this form if you want to join the Open Beta waiting list.

Fill out this form if you want to purchase converted FoMoCo modules from me.
FYI: You can purchase cheaper FoMoCo modules here, but then you will need to convert them yourself... and also those modules are untested, and might have physical damage (particularly to the module's unprotected bottom).

If your comment isn't specifically related to LiBCM's 47Ah FoMoCo variant, please post it elsewhere:
 

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Well, I did ask didn't I? Fortunately I've already seen a lot more than a half ripe banana. I do like those handles:ROFLMAO:
 

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Well, I’ve filled out the form and I’ve got the batteries… I guess I’m just missing a well ripened banana? Ha!
 

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Linsight Designer
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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Lithium Module Shipping Update:
So I'm sending out the first set of FoMoCo modules and boy is hazardous shipping expensive:
Sending QTY1 module to California costs $115!
Sending QTY5 modules to California costs $575!

Observations:
-FedEx does not allow combined shipping for hazardous materials.
-The hazardous fees are $80 of the shipping cost, which is why other lithium battery sellers don't properly declare their hazardous materials.
-Shipping hazmat via FedEx Ground is not sustainable from a business perspective. I will need to come up with another legal way to ship these modules**.
-At my estimated ($350/module delivered) cost, my net profit per module is only $20... and that doesn't include any of the additional costs I've incurred wandering down this rabbit hole, or the time I spend balancing and preparing each module prior to shipment. I will lose money on every single module I ship. Awesome!
-I absolutely will not purchase any more FoMoCo modules. I didn't want to anyway, but here we are.
-I can see why other sellers are tempted to break the law (by not declaring hazardous materials).
-If you're close by, I recommend picking these modules up in Chattanooga (or purchasing them from other sellers).

**Probably freight shipping on a pallet. If someone in CA can receive an entire pallet, it probably makes sense to send QTY50 modules to that one location (on a pallet), and then have people come pick them up locally.

Here's a video wherein I restate the above for five minutes:
 

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Premium Member
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Lithium Module Shipping Update:
So I'm sending out the first set of FoMoCo modules and boy is hazardous shipping expensive:
Sending QTY1 module to California costs $115!
Sending QTY5 modules to California costs $575!

Observations:
-FedEx does not allow combined shipping for hazardous materials.
-The hazardous fees are $80 of the shipping cost, which is why other lithium battery sellers don't properly declare their hazardous materials.
-Shipping hazmat via FedEx Ground is not sustainable from a business perspective. I will need to come up with another legal way to ship these modules**.
-At my estimated ($350/module delivered) cost, my net profit per module is only $20... and that doesn't include any of the additional costs I've incurred wandering down this rabbit hole, or the time I spend balancing and preparing each module prior to shipment. I will lose money on every single module I ship. Awesome!
-I absolutely will not purchase any more FoMoCo modules. I didn't want to anyway, but here we are.
-I can see why other sellers are tempted to break the law (by not declaring hazardous materials).
-If you're close by, I recommend picking these modules up in Chattanooga (or purchasing them from other sellers).

**Probably freight shipping on a pallet. If someone in CA can receive an entire pallet, it probably makes sense to send QTY50 modules to that one location (on a pallet), and then have people come pick them up locally.

Here's a video wherein I restate the above for five minutes:
I'd be willing to do the pallet thing. Though I would need the exact dimensions of the pallet with batteries on it to confirm I have the space(I should). I could also stock the required number of LiBCM kits so people could just show up, pick up a whole kit+batteries and be about their way.

I must go on record I am NOT interested at being a builder ATM. I'm far too busy, however that may change by the end of the month and if it does I'll update.
 
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Linsight Designer
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Don't ship them is the answer I fear.

What do battery hook up Do?
I don't have any public comment on how Battery Hookup ships these modules. If anyone wants to post their Battery Hookup packaging experience, I'm sure the community would love to hear it.

I will say that in general most shippers are shipping these modules using the "Limited Quantity" exemption (up to 300 Wh, whereas these modules are 2070 Wh each). Hazmat isn't required for LQ shipments... the Hazmat fee is $75 per physical box sent, so you can see why most shippers are using the LQ exemption. Note that the fine is $75,000 for shipping oversized batteries as LQ. This is only slightly less than the $100,000 fine for not declaring anything at all (i.e. stuffing the battery in an unmarked box).
 

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I don't have any public comment on how Battery Hookup ships these modules. If anyone wants to post their Battery Hookup packaging experience, I'm sure the community would love to hear it.
[/UNQUOTE]
They ship them in a double corrugated box, two per box with most/all the same markings. After some of the first orders experienced damage, I e-mailed them raising hell about shipping damage. Mine arrived with not a nick, but who knows where the damage was occurring in the first place. They used a lot of foam wrap and stryafoam peanuts but still not the high density foam blocks I suggested.

Just now I looked at the shipping document. The only description of the materials is "class 9, 55 lbs.

"
Lithium Battery Shipping Overview
PGH Safety
April 2019
Class 9 Miscellaneous Label exception for lithium battery packages imported into the domestic US.
The DOT has issued an interpretation letter that permits shippers of lithium batteries to leave the Class 9
miscellaneous label still affixed to the package and still take advantage of the exceptions offered for
domestic ground shipping in the 48 contiguous states. This means that the shipper does not need to
remove or cover the Class 9 label on the package in order to ship as a partially regulated package
(similar to an ORM-D). Therefore, these packages do not need shipping papers, such as a Hazmat
Certification [OP-950] or OP-900 Hazmat tags. These packages will not need to be packaged in UN
POP (performance oriented packaging), nor are they subject to the hazmat surcharge. The
packages must display a battery handling mark to qualify for this exception. The packages are
likely to be marked similar to this example when shipped by ground. Note that there are no OP-900
tags on this packag " the quote from the Fedex site.
Man, I feel for you. What a rotten rabbit hole:mad:
 

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Linsight Designer
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4,479 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I'd be willing to do the pallet thing. Though I would need the exact dimensions of the pallet with batteries on it to confirm I have the space(I should). I could also stock the required number of LiBCM kits so people could just show up, pick up a whole kit+batteries and be about their way.
LTL shipping QTY50 FoMoCo modules to you on a 48x48 pallet is only $945, including liftgate service (so you don't need a forklift). That's more than 6x cheaper than FedEx.

I must go on record I am NOT interested at being a builder ATM. I'm far too busy, however that may change by the end of the month and if it does I'll update.
Understood.
 

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LTL shipping QTY50 FoMoCo modules to you on a 48x48 pallet is only $945, including liftgate service (so you don't need a forklift). That's more than 6x cheaper than FedEx.


Understood.
I have a forklift at the shop. I gotta see if it runs, it's probably been a good 7-8 years since it was started.
 
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Mudder, How many sets of batteries would you be sending to California? We can share the shipping cost and add a little extra so at least $25 per module shipped that would be more than enough to cover the shipping cost and then some.
 

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Linsight Designer
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I have a forklift at the shop. I gotta see if it runs, it's probably been a good 7-8 years since it was started.
Only if you want to take on that side project... liftgate only adds $100 or so.

Mudder, How many sets of batteries would you be sending to California? We can share the shipping cost and add a little extra so at least $25 per module shipped that would be more than enough to cover the shipping cost and then some.
Based on my data thus far, around half of the LiBCM units are in CA. Therefore, I'm thinking about sending QTY10 sets (i.e. QTY50 modules) to LA. Obviously CA is a big state, but it's still 'smaller' than driving to Chattanooga and back. Phoenix and Las Vegas are also relatively nearby.
 

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Balto, where are you relative to jue motors? I'd be willing to pick mine up before taking my car back to Wisconsin for conversion at Eric's if its not super far off my normal route or near a casino I regularly stop at for work.

How many modules will safely fit in an insight with passenger seat removed. I might be able to assist logistics in a small way. My tahoe will also be returned for so ill have a lot of storage but won't know my route until closer to the date. Generally from California I go east to Phoenix area and then to New mexico or Colorado or both. I wouldn't have the full tahoe for storage as I use part of it for sleeping in while traveling.

As a side note on that how many modules are expected to go to Wisconsin? It always seemed like it had an inordinate number of insights per capita.
 

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Balto, where are you relative to jue motors? I'd be willing to pick mine up before taking my car back to Wisconsin for conversion at Eric's if its not super far off my normal route or near a casino I regularly stop at for work.

How many modules will safely fit in an insight with passenger seat removed. I might be able to assist logistics in a small way. My tahoe will also be returned for so ill have a lot of storage but won't know my route until closer to the date. Generally from California I go east to Phoenix area and then to New mexico or Colorado or both. I wouldn't have the full tahoe for storage as I use part of it for sleeping in while traveling.

As a side note on that how many modules are expected to go to Wisconsin? It always seemed like it had an inordinate number of insights per capita.
Mmmm 45 minutes? I'm located in San Bernardino.
 
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