[TaylorL]

is that the only place to buy them?

That’s where we’ve all been buying them. Again though mudder has a ton of them, you can fill out his order form and buy from him. He was having issues with shipping, unsure if that was resolved or if it’s going to be a local pickup thing.

 

[trickle]

That’s where we’ve all been buying them. Again though mudder has a ton of them, you can fill out his order form and buy from him. He was having issues with shipping, unsure if that was resolved or if it’s going to be a local pickup thing.

well see thats the problem.. we'll have to wait and see what he says but:
i filled out an order last week, i don't have batteries yet, and watching all his youtube 's he points out that it's too expensive to ship them and he was going to freight them out of his life to somewhere else IIRC

 

[mudder]

Right now I am not planning to ship the modules I have. I've delivered QTY2 sets so far (because purchaser was en route to wherever I was heading). I've also had QTY2 sets picked up from me in Chattanooga. Eventually there will be around QTY10 sets delivered to LA.

I'm not opposed to shipping these modules in the future, but it will be incredibly expensive... probably around $700... the hazmat fees are incredible and also it's just a huge headache.

 

[trickle]

Right now I am not planning to ship the modules I have. I've delivered QTY2 sets so far (because purchaser was en route to wherever I was heading). I've also had QTY2 sets picked up from me in Chattanooga. Eventually there will be around QTY10 sets delivered to LA.

I'm not opposed to shipping these modules in the future, but it will be incredibly expensive... probably around $700... the hazmat fees are incredible and also it's just a huge headache.

@mudder
i think you have have my LiBCM order in query, i hope, i know its been about 2 weeks. (reference Post #57) I ignorantly neglected FoMoCo availability.
I should've ordered them step 1. but funding this has been tricky.
I know you are a busy guy, I respect the hard work you do and your array of skills and perseverance.
I could make a trip to Madison area XMAS, it's 10 hours south and east from me. (🤞)
please PM or email me if you may be willing, if not i thoroughly understand. (pains me to ask)
Until further notice i must however suspend my LiBCM purchase indefinately. (Sorry)
I was really hoping to score some cells locally to reduce cost so i could buy good equipment to balance with, on top of that i don't really have a warm place to do the balancing and testing.
I could plug them into the clothes dryer and heat the house at the same time

I would really hate to abandon it all together, i would like to support your efforts
i especially feel bad for distracting you with the battery heater idea now..

 

[joeaax1j]

i especially feel bad for distracting you with the battery heater idea now..

You aren't the only person in colder climates.

 

[mudder]

i think you have have my LiBCM order in query, i hope, i know its been about 2 weeks. (reference Post #57) I ignorantly neglected FoMoCo availability.

Yes, I have received it. I'm about two months behind even responding to submissions.

I should've ordered them step 1. but funding this has been tricky.

The batteries? I still have several sets available.

I know you are a busy guy, I respect the hard work you do and your array of skills and perseverance.

Lots on my plate.

I could make a trip to Madison area XMAS, it's 10 hours south and east from me. (🤞)

I'm already bringing a set to another member in Madison for Christmas. I brought another set up last week, too.

Until further notice i must however suspend my LiBCM purchase indefinately. (Sorry)

Noted. I plan to sell LiBCM for a while, so just send me a PM in the future and we can resume your order.

I was really hoping to score some cells locally to reduce cost so i could buy good equipment to balance with, on top of that i don't really have a warm place to do the balancing and testing.

FYI: LiBCM balances the cells, so no additional equipment required... it'll just take up to a couple weeks if your modules are really unbalanced when you first install them. Car is still drivable, just with reduced IMA capacity.

i especially feel bad for distracting you with the battery heater idea now..

The heater solution is important.

 

[mudder]

Update: The final part required to ship these kits is finished and in the mail to me right now. Once it arrives, I'll need to shoot all the installation videos, and then probably a bunch of other stuff too... but the ball will be in my court once the box arrives.

 

[e*clipse]

Hello, I've been lurking around here looking at this project.

Bottom line: I'm thoroughly impressed. I've signed up to purchase both the LiBCM & the 48s battery setup.

I would like to know if the forms went through - & please forgive my answers to some of the questions...

If shipping the modules individually is impractical, I would be happy to chip in for that pallet going to California.

 

[live4soccer7]

I just asked batteryhookup if they will be getting more and their response was that there is a slight chance they may come across them again in the future.

 

[live4soccer7]

They just emailed back and said they had 16 that were not inventoried. I just purchased 5 of them, so they should have 11 left for anyone wanting them!

 

[mudder]

Hello, I've been lurking around here looking at this project.
Bottom line: I'm thoroughly impressed. I've signed up to purchase both the LiBCM & the 48s battery setup.

Thanks... it's certainly a passion project.

I would like to know if the forms went through - & please forgive my answers to some of the questions...

Yes, I've received both forms you submitted. I'm over a month behind in replying to form submissions. LiBCM is a one-man-one-van operation and right now I have my engineering hat on.

If shipping the modules individually is impractical, I would be happy to chip in for that pallet going to California.

There will be a small additional fee (TBD) for those that choose to pick up modules in LA.

 

[e*clipse]

@mudder

Awesome!

No worries on timing; I'm a little too familiar with what you're going through.

Regarding the LA fee - no worries. I expected some shipping costs.

 

[mudder]

Final custom FoMoCo part arrived yesterday. Works great!

 

[mudder]

Here's the RevA LiBCM Daughterboard Schematic:

FYI: For full size, right click and select 'open in new tab'.

This daughterboard adds the following functionality:
-hardware support for stalled fan detection
-512 MB flash memory, to store drive data (for debug and/or later recall). Due to component shortages, I'm using an off-the-shelf Adafruit XTSD solution ($9, but readily available).
-hardware support for external user switch. Intended use is setting a flag in the stored data (but can be used to control anything in firmware).
-hardware support to communicate with mudder's IMA controller (IMA cruise, etc).
-an isolated HVDC switch, which will control the heater solution for 47Ah FoMoCo kits
-An isolated circuit to limit the 1500 watt grid charger's output current (if needed).
-hardware support for MCP2515 CAN module. I never intend to write the firmware for this.

 

[retepsnikrep]

Thanks for adding the CAN daughter board support.

Just sanity checking the MISO v MOSI header connections?

SO on the CAN daughterboard is slave data out pin >> Data >> Master (Arduino)
SI on the CAN daughterboard is slave data in pin << Data << Master (Arduino)

Arduino CAN Tutorial - Interfacing MCP2515 CAN BUS Module with Arduino

In this MCP2515 Arduino based CAN tutorial we will look into the basics of CAN communication protocol and then finally we will also exchange data between two Arduinos using CAN communication.

circuitdigest.com

 

[live4soccer7]

@mudder looks good! I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, which software did you use to create the schematic?

 

[freeberg]

@mudder Thanks for all your work on this! Question: Since the charger needs a different current limit value for 120VAC vs. 240VAC, how do you plan to sense and control this function? Where will that circuit reside?

 

[trickle]

thanks for the video/updates mudder.
i hope you get your g3 folks taken care of and move ahead with less distractions.
my status is still idle, purchased modules last Friday morning, they definitely took my money haha.. no info to go with it yet..
certainly opened my eyes to have broader perspective and to do more research.
anybody else have an issue with BatteryHookup please let me know.

 

[mudder]

@mudder looks good! I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, which software did you use to create the schematic?

I design everything in KiCAD, which is open source and amazing. I've used Mentor Expedition, Altium Designer, Eagle, etc, and KiCAD is my favorite by far.

...

Just sanity checking the MISO v MOSI header connections?

SO on the CAN daughterboard is slave data out pin >> Data >> Master (Arduino)
SI on the CAN daughterboard is slave data in pin << Data << Master (Arduino)

I concur:
SO = MISO
SI = MOSI

Maybe I'm missing what you're pointing out? Is the pinout wrong? I'm horrible with connectors.

...

@mudder Thanks for all your work on this! Question: Since the charger needs a different current limit value for 120VAC vs. 240VAC, how do you plan to sense and control this function? Where will that circuit reside?

Great question.
Let's revisit the data:

	Vac = 120	Vac = 100
Input Power Limit, Datasheet	1170 watts	990 watts
Input Power Limit, Boilerplate ("900 Wmax, Vin:100-120")	900 watts	900 watts
Input Power, Observed	1405 watts	1284 watts

Based on the linear graph shown in the datasheet, the boilerplate 900 watt rating is pretty suspect... If we delete that limit, we're left with:

	Vac = 120	Vac = 100
Input Power Limit, Datasheet	1170 watts	990 watts
Input Power, Observed	1405 watts	1284 watts
Delta Power	+235 watts (+20%)	+294 watts (+29.7%)

We can see that the supply is regulating input power as a function of input voltage, just not to MeanWell's specifications. Note that I've operated the supply at Vac=100 volts for about 20 hours without issue.

In my conversion with MeanWell (before they stopped responding a few weeks back), overheating is the primary concern with pulling too much power. To improve performance, I've implemented both of the recommended cooling solutions (conduction heat sink and fan). However, due to space constraints I haven't met MeanWell's minimum heat sink thickness or fan volume... my implementation is below both recommendations, but they only require one implementation so I'm banking on that.

Based on my testing, the input rectifier is by far the weakest link when input voltage is below 120 Vac. Fortunately, MeanWell bolted a temperature sensor directly to it. However, in my testing the input power doesn't dial back, even when the rectifier gets up to 110 degC... fortunately the part is rated to 150 degC.

Fortunately, LiBCM itself has a temperature sensor directly attached to the grid charger... so it can turn the grid charger off entirely if the chassis gets too hot. Obviously I'll need to correlate real-world data from this sensor with how hot the rectifier actually is. It's not ideal, but if we're conservative enough then it will keep the supply in a safe operating region.

LiBCM's isolated Vac_sense circuit can only determine if Vac is present... not the actual input voltage. Unfortunately LiBCM's PCB is too space constrained to improve the existing circuit. Also, the daughterboard I'm designing is too I/O constrained to add an improved Vac_sense circuit there. In retrospect, I should have broken out another dozen I/O pins from the Mega2560.

Since we don't have the I/O to measure the input voltage - or selectively control the input power - we're left with permanently setting the output current to whatever value is safe across all operating temperature. This is accomplished with the Zener diode D2, along with the voltage divider R17/R18/R19/R20 (in the schematic in post #94). Varying the voltage divider and Zener voltages allows us to set the output current to any fixed value.

So then we just need to figure out a safe input power limit. As I noted in my last video, the default output current level is 110% of the recommended continuous operating value. So at minimum I'm going to configure the Zener circuit to set the output current to 100%... it's beyond crazy to me that the default value (if you leave these pins floating) exceeds their specification. My guess is MeanWell anticipates people using this supply in CV mode, whereas I'm using it in CC mode.

I wish I had a more robust answer... but ultimately we have the ability to limit the output power to whatever value is safe across all operating variables.

 

[mudder]

thanks for the video/updates mudder.

I enjoy sharing my progress.
I respect those who don't share a product until it's finished... but I've just never operated that way. LiBCM wouldn't have happened if I didn't share my progress along the way... y'all still wouldn't know about it, and I would have lost interest by now .

i hope you get your g3 folks taken care of and move ahead with less distractions.

Based on my experience with myself, there will always be more distractions.
I'm definitely prioritizing the 5AhG3 folks' cold weather concerns... but right now I don't have the hardware required for further testing. As soon as the RevA 12S PCB arrives, that'll be my number 1 priority. In fact, I've already finished the RevB changes I know about for both the 12S & 18S PCBs... if my RevA test data is good, I can immediately order RevB. I don't expect to make any major changes, so even if minor additional changes are required it shouldn't take more than an hour in layout.

In regards to the firmware aspects related to "get your g3 folks taken care of"... yeah, that was my plan for December before diving into the battery heater solutions. My understanding right now is that we beta customers are generally happy with LiBCM... there are a few quirks here and there, but overall LiBCM is working in every car. If that's not the case, please let me know and I can put out fires on a case-by-case basis.

FYI: The reason I haven't pulled 'prerelease' firmware into 'main' is that I'm halfway through implementing several new features... until finish them all I can't in good conscience pull anything into main. I don't endorse this predicament, but it's where we are.

my status is still idle, purchased modules last Friday morning, they definitely took my money haha.. no info to go with it yet.

Previously you had asked me to take you off the FoMoCo waiting list... do you want me to add you back?

certainly opened my eyes to have broader perspective and to do more research.
anybody else have an issue with BatteryHookup please let me know.

I'm curious to see if the small batch of modules they found were in fact the ones I returned. At this point if they're out of modules, I'm not sure what the recourse will be if you receive damaged modules.