[Recovering_Gasaholic]

@mudder Yes, yours are definitely a better deal. I just thought it was relevant as to what car they came from. How many sets do you have left?

It was stated that greentech Tested from 4.15v down to 3V at 30A and that resulted in 30Ah. I'm not sure what it would be if they went all the way down to 2.7.

 

[mudder]

@mudder Yes, yours are definitely a better deal. I just thought it was relevant as to what car they came from. How many sets do you have left?

They aren't exactly flying off the shelf. In all I've purchased enough modules for QTY21 cars (including mine). So far I've delivered sets to three people, and have another eight people waiting to pick them up (e.g. in California, or from me at a later date). So then I have maybe QTY9 sets left.

Given that I've received QTY27 FoMoCo reservations, that would suggest that at least QTY16 people have purchased modules elsewhere (e.g. from BatteryHookup).

Related: I only purchased enough custom mechanical parts to make QTY50 47Ah FoMoCo LiBCM Kits... once those run out, unless there's an overwhelming additional demand, I do not intend to purchase more custom parts. That means right now there are QTY22 FoMoCo kits left unspoken for.

It was stated that greentech Tested from 4.15v down to 3V at 30A and that resulted in 30Ah. I'm not sure what it would be if they went all the way down to 2.7.

When I discharged my characterization cells at 3.0 amps, the energy contained from 3.0 to 2.7 volts is less than 2% of total capacity, which is vanishingly small given how much the wear accelerates at the SoC extrema. At 30 amps the energy contained would be slightly higher (maybe 3%), but so would the wear acceleration multiplier.

During my long term testing, I continuously charged/discharged these cells at 75/86 ** amps, nonstop for 44 days. During each cycle, I stopped charging at 4.050 volts (measured when the 75 amps was still applied). I stopped discharging at 3.300 volts (measured when the 86 amp load was still applied). Therefore, my test used less of the overall range, was substantially more severe, and yet my cells outperformed the eBay cells you linked... during continuous operation for six weeks.

My goal here isn't to point out that "my cells are better" (they are), but rather that "those eBay cells are bad" (very bad).

**Clarification: I charged at a fixed 75 amps, but discharged into a fixed resistance load, which means the current varied as a function of cell voltage (V=IR), with an average 86 amps discharge current. I logged all the test data, which means you could theoretically figure out the actual current at any instant in time during the entire test period (using V=IR).

 

[cb88]

They aren't exactly flying off the shelf. In all I've purchased enough modules for QTY21 cars (including mine). So far I've delivered sets to three people, and have another eight people waiting to pick them up (e.g. in California, or from me at a later date). So then I have maybe QTY9 sets left.

I just filled out a reservation so -1 probably going with a 60S + your IMA setup when it is ready. The car is stock currently other than a grid charge setup. Oh and it's a 5 hour drive to you from my house so I guess I will do that when the time comes to pick up everything.

 

[cb88]

Heh.... I've driven my Insight from Charlotte to the other side of Atlanta a few times for work (basically paid for it in mileage already, and it will have paid for itself again in fuel savigs in a few months) so... Charlotte to Chattanooga is no big deal. I might need a nap in there somewhere though... lol.

I drove 15 hours in 20 hours from Dallas to Charlotte in a box truck from Computer Reset (see youtube for LGR's look inside that place its finally 100% closed now but there were all sorts of vintage electronics and computers there I got a Zenith luggable, a few compaq portables, and some IBM XT hardware including expansion boxes, and an IBM PS/2 8580). Got less than I expected but it was a fun trip. There were people there from alot farther away too.

The other crazy trip I did was about a 6 hour drive to just above VA beach.... picked up 2 Sparcserver 1000s from a guy there. This was a few yearss ago though.

 

[mudder]

FYI: If you don't have FoMoCo modules yet and want to purchase them from me, you should fill out this form ASAP. I only have QTY5 sets left. I don't plan to purchase more, so once I run out, you'll need to source them elsewhere on the open marketplace.

 

[mudder]

Today I created QTY100 'L' brackets, which mount between the upper and lower battery layers. This is enough brackets for QTY50 cars. To create these brackets, I drilled around 1000 holes, and then chamfered both sides of every hole.

FYI: I made this many brackets because there's quite a bit of setup/teardown work. If I had had more raw 'L' stock, I would have made even more.

 

[hurricos]

I thought I should mention to you all: I received my FoMoCo batteries at exactly 46.5V for all four sets. They have been sitting in my cold, cold, dark garage since Novemberish.

I went out and measured them to see how they were doing after all these months.

They had all dropped to ... 46.5V. These things don't blink :^)

 

[mudder]

FoMoCo Kit Manufacturing updates (I'm going to keep updating this reply as I finish each task):
-100% complete: QTY22 LiBCM PCBs (these take the most time to assemble)
-100% complete: QTY30 4 AWG high current cabling sets (these take the second most time to assemble)
-90% complete: QTY22 polycarbonate covers (100% folded, just need to add labels)
-90% complete: QTY50 aluminum brackets sets
-0% complete: QTY20 6.5 amp (~1500 watt) grid chargers
-0% complete: QTY10 2.1 amp (~500 watt) grid charger
-0% complete: QTY?? heater kits
-60% complete: QTY50 BMS cables (these don't take much time)
-0% complete: QTY22 18 AWG LiBCM HVDC power cables (these don't take much time)

Over the next couple days I'll send each reservation holder a "47Ah FoMoCo Options Configuration Form", which will include final pricing for each option.

...

FoMoCo design updates:
-I'm still ironing out a few wrinkles, but my goal this weekend is to completely assemble the pack into my car in its final shipping configuration; there were always loose ends during each prior installation.
-Right now the primary change (from the previous install) is that the temperature sensors are now directly attached to each module (instead of the aluminum rails). This should more accurately reflect the actual cell temperature.
-I've added several Anderson connectors to the various wire harnesses, to make assembly easier.
-I've added an additional fan to the 1500 watt grid charger heat sink, to reduce cell heating in the FoMoCo module directly above the grid charger. This is to allow LiBCM to charge at full power in hot weather. Since we monitor each module, we can dynamically reduce charging power if this module gets too hot (i.e. in hot weather).

 

[retepsnikrep]

-Right now the primary change (from the previous install) is that the temperature sensors are now directly attached to each module (instead of the aluminum rails). This should more accurately reflect the actual cell temperature.

FWIW In the CR-Z the OEM temp sensors are underneath the two outermost cells in a block of 10.
So on the bottom of the outer cells under the black bar. More relevant to the smaller packs. JFYI.

 

[mudder]

FWIW In the CR-Z the OEM temp sensors are underneath the two outermost cells in a block of 10.
So on the bottom of the outer cells under the black bar. More relevant to the smaller packs. JFYI.

It's always a fun engineering challenge trying to minimize the number of sensors required to safely measure a large number of items. For FoMoCo, we'll have QTY1 sensor per module, which is enough to make sure nothing is overheating.

...

I just finished manufacturing all 4 AWG HVDC cables required for QTY30 FoMoCo Kits:

...my fingers are sore. As I've mentioned previously, all FoMoCo Kits will come with all the parts for both 48S (QTY4 modules) and 60S (QTY5 modules). That way you can switch between configurations with just a few minutes work.

 

[mudder]

Today: Two out of three BMS cables for QTY50 cars:

 

[[email protected]]

Good grief, brother! Your fingernails are going to fall off ;-)
But go man, go!
Appreciate the labor of love!

 

[mudder]

As of this morning all FoMoCo modules I purchased last year are spoken for.

However, since I haven't actually collected payment from anyone yet, there are probably a few people who won't pay...
...so I probably have at least two sets left. So if you want any chance of buying FoMoCo modules from me, you should fill out this form immediately.

Later this week I will send out payment requests to everyone who has reserved modules. Payment prior to 2023APR02 holds your spot on the reservation list. After that, modules are reserved in the order payment is received.

 

[mudder]

If you previously reserved a 47Ah FoMoCo Kit and didn't get a PM just now, then:
-I made a mistake, or;
-you didn't actually fill out the form, or;
-google forms ate your response.

If you think you filled out the form and didn't receive a PM:
-send me a PM... maybe I made a mistake.
-you'll probably need to fill out the form again.

...

As I've mentioned previously, I don't intend to make more than QTY50 FoMoCo Kits*... there are several custom parts that I have to order in batches of at least QTY50... so unless there's considerably more demand (e.g. QTY100 total customers), I probably won't ever order more custom parts. So if you ever want a FoMoCo Kit*, then you should probably fill out the form linked above. Right now I have parts for ~QTY14 more FoMoCo Kits*.

*This only applies to FoMoCo Kits... I have the parts to build many more 5AhG3 Kits.

 

[mudder]

Today I manufactured QTY10 standard (2.1 amp) grid chargers, and started manufacturing QTY20 fast (6.5 amp) grid chargers. See post #168 for updated overall status.

 

[AfterEffect]

Today I manufactured QTY10 standard (2.1 amp) grid chargers, and started manufacturing QTY20 fast (6.5 amp) grid chargers. See post #168 for updated overall status.

I may have missed it, but what were the options for the 220v-only higher wattage grid chargers that didn't win the community vote? I've dug through the Github and your videos as well and haven't found that info. From what I gather, you're just adding a larger triac rated for the total power to the output of the PSU controlled by the smaller triac built onto the LiBCM?

 

[mudder]

I may have missed it, but what were the options for the 220v-only higher wattage grid chargers that didn't win the community vote?

The 240Vin-only option would have output 12 amps, which would have charged at +25% SoC per hour. It would have cost around $700.
Given that almost everyone wanted a 120Vin-compatible charger, I opted to not add this option.
Also, this 12 amp supply doesn't fit inside the IMA bay, which would have made safe mounting difficult.

I've dug through the Github and your videos as well and haven't found that info.

I didn't commit the 12 amp charger prototype to the github repo, as it didn't ultimately become part of the project. If you're curious, I was looking at the MeanWell CSP-3000-250. I must stress that I have zero plans to offer this product at this time... there just isn't enough demand for it to make it worth the effort... I might sell one or two ever, which is a big difference compared to selling QTY50 or so.

From what I gather, you're just adding a larger triac rated for the total power to the output of the PSU controlled by the smaller triac built onto the LiBCM?

Here are the additional electronics required for the 6.5 amp charger (which did make it to production):
-larger HVDC blocking diode, with much larger heat sink (mounted on LiBCM daughterboard), and;
-(as you mentioned) larger TRIAC to handle increased input current (particularly when operating at 120 volts). Said TRIAC is bolted inside the actual grid charger, but is driven by LiBCM's onboard TRIAC. Overall, it's actually three cascaded TRIACs (low current optically isolated TRIAC on LiBCM PCB -> high current TRIAC on LiBCM PCB -> higher current TRIAC bolted inside grid charger).
-Different wire harness, due to where the additional components (see above) are located. It's still very clean; you'll see once I post the installation videos.

Great questions!

 

[eprom]

With the rear weight of the car increasing in your car with the 60S configuration, I would like to know what suspension you have, an original or the 30% stronger springs that Scott sells?
By installing the kit with FOMOCO battery, does installing stronger springs become necessary ?

 

[joeaax1j]

With the rear weight of the car increasing in your car with the 60S configuration, I would like to know what suspension you have, an original or the 30% stronger springs that Scott sells?
By installing the kit with FOMOCO battery, does installing stronger springs become necessary ?

Previously, Mudder wrote:

Yeah with 60S I would say you'll want/need to perform the following additional things:
-Scott's rear springs
-Manual IMA (MIMA, OBDIIC&C, muddersMIMA, etc)
-modified resistor divider (inside HVDCDC supply)
-probably Peter's MCM short circuit mod (however I ultimately implement it with LiBCM)
-sense of adventure, willingness to accept bring-up hiccups

Whereas with 48S FoMoCo you'd only want/need to perform:
-Scott's rear springs
-Manual IMA

Source:

Introducing LiBCM: A near drop-in lithium battery system...

Another successful install under my belt. Built one for @EggEnjoyer's dad's insight.

www.insightcentral.net

 

[mudder]

Here's what I've been up to the past couple weeks: