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Interesting behavior. Note that in a situation where you "need to start the car now," you can always engage the backup starter by holding the key in start for several seconds.
Actually tried that and 12v starter wouldn't engage either. Maybe I didn't hold it long enough. Will try that next time.
 

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Sorry if I'm asking a question that may have already been answered,
I've been reading for 3 days to find my answers, but I haven't found them yet..

If I understand correctly currently, with LIBCM the driver must monitor the SOC by himself.
If he gets distracted and the battery goes out of voltage limit, LIBCM will turn on the IMA light and cut off regen and assist.
From this moment it will be necessary to recharge the battery at home or wait to discharge with the circuit of equalization of the batteries?

I read that the magic frame remains to be found to send the SOC to the car.
After this problem it will be solved for users without IMAC&C.

For IMAC&C users is there anything that will stop the assist or regen before gooing out limit and see the IMA light comming on ?
 

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Here's mudder's discussion of the safeguards to prevent overcharging from the grid. It sounds very thorough. G1 Honda Insight Lithium BMS Discussion

As an LiBCM user, I can tell you that it has never let the battery go over its configured max voltage while I was driving it. In fact, the battery always seems to be between 45% and 75%. (I don't live in a hilly area.)

@mudder recommends that you install a calpod switch to be able to prevent regen manually, but I think that would only be necessary in case of some extraordinary failure.

I'm sure one of the experts will chime in with a more detailed answer.
 

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On 2005-2006 insight, the clutch switch will disable regen but not assist.
That's why I'm particularly interested in these questions.

With the information given by Peter in the following link I can probably make myself the equivalent of the calpod switch but before spending time on that, I would like to know if there is already a solution to cut the regen / assist before the voltage is out of range .
 

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The LiBCM firmware should not allow the voltage to go out of bounds even if assist or regen is manually commanded.

There are some flags in the BCM > MCM data stream that when set prevent assist/regen.

LiBCM sets these if the voltage goes too high/low and that kills assist or regen.

SOC is sent to the MCM by LiBCM on the BATTSCI line.
The MCM forwards it to the Gauge cluster on the METSCI line.

The issue is we have to send the MCM a SOC % within a narrow range or it starts to limit things.
As we can't send a full range SOC to the MCM the knock on effect is the gauge can't reflect a real Lithium pack SOC.

We would have to drive the gauge cluster directly to have it reflect an accurate full range %
 

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Thank you for your clear answer.
I needed a good understanding of how LIBCM works before ordering, maybe I'll place an order today.
The plans and the entire project is extremely professional and clean.
 

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i have just put the Insight for grid charge after it has been unused for the past 2 weeks as been on holiday, went out to check progress and was on 44% but noticed unusual reading are they something to worry about or just a glitch. High of 6.245 and low of 0.0
Automotive lighting Automotive exterior Gadget Font Gas

un plugged grid charger started car and then replugged in.
Automotive lighting Automotive exterior Clock Gadget Bumper


car has done 2000 miles since conversion with no issues and loving the conversion
 

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@Campervanman

That looks like Firmware 0.6.8 which is out of date.
It is unable to balance when the key is off IIRC.

I think we are def upto 0.7.4 in the main and maybe higher in the pre-release.
You need to update asap.
 

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This is sort of related to LiBCM. I'm trying to find some more of the rubber gasket material that Mudder includes with the LiBCM kits. If you don't recall what I'm referring to, here is a picture of the stuff that Mudder sent us:

Human body Wood Table Wood stain Flooring


I'm struggling to find this stuff online. I need another couple of inches of this stuff for a related project. But I can't locate it online. Anybody know what it is called, or willing to share a link to where I can buy it?

Thanks!
Bryan
 

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This is sort of related to LiBCM. I'm trying to find some more of the rubber gasket material that Mudder includes with the LiBCM kits. If you don't recall what I'm referring to, here is a picture of the stuff that Mudder sent us:

View attachment 97205

I'm struggling to find this stuff online. I need another couple of inches of this stuff for a related project. But I can't locate it online. Anybody know what it is called, or willing to share a link to where I can buy it?

Thanks!
Bryan
 

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If you'd rather LiBCM caused the MCM to background charge the batteries (like it used to):
adc.cpp, line 72:
latest_battCurrent_amps = ((int16_t)((((uint16_t)latest_battCurrent_counts) * 55) >> 8)) - 71; //slow background charge (until full)
latest_battCurrent_amps = ((int16_t)((((uint16_t)latest_battCurrent_counts) * 55) >> 8)) - 72; //slow background discharge (until empty)
Update, this has worked great for idle A/C usage on lunch break. Instead of consuming an estimated 20% SOC/hr, I consume only approximately 2% SOC/hr. (Year 2000 MT)
 

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and two dogs
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Peter has prompted me to post an update. All is fine: nothing to report on LiBMS itself. I've not seen or heard any voltage out-of-range events on 0.7.2 and particularly enjoy the sustained assist on long hills at low SoC. I usually keep the car plugged in so get the extra MPG from a full initial charge.

On the gauge cluster SoC issue, I've simply stopped looking at the Charge/Assist part of the display. I haven't found the need to monitor the 4x20 SoC actively in normal driving as this keeps within 40 to 60% as others have said.

Thanks again for an excellent solution, John.
 

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Linsight Designer
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Discussion Starter · #657 ·
If I understand correctly currently, with LIBCM the driver must monitor the SOC by himself.
If he gets distracted and the battery goes out of voltage limit, LIBCM will turn on the IMA light and cut off regen and assist.
During the Open Beta period, the driver is ultimately responsible for maintaining all cell voltages within safe operating limits. This is 100% a legal liability statement... at this point LiBCM does this for you automatically... but ultimately you are legally responsible if the voltage strays out-of-bounds and you fail to take steps to get back in-bounds.

From this moment it will be necessary to recharge the battery at home or wait to discharge with the circuit of equalization of the batteries?
If any cell voltage gets too high, LiBCM will disable regen and also emit an annoying beep until the voltage goes back into a safe operating area.

If cany cell voltage gets too low, LiBCM will disable assist and also emit an annoying beep until the voltage goes back into a safe operating area. If the voltage gets dangerously low, then LiBCM will disable grid charging.

...

In a future firmware update, if dangerous cell voltages exist, LiBCM will permanently disable assist/regen until the user acknowledges that continuing to operate with the existing battery may cause a thermal event to occur. This is 100% a legal liability issue... the 48S EHW5 configuration stores energy equivalent to QTY3 sticks of dynamite.

I read that the magic frame remains to be found to send the SOC to the car.
After this problem it will be solved for users without IMAC&C.
The missing 'magic' SoC frame only affects the SoC displayed on the OEM dashboard battery fuel gauge. LiBCM's 4x20 display shows actual SoC in percent. The MCM is presently able to properly read the SoC percentage that LiBCM sends.

For IMAC&C users is there anything that will stop the assist or regen before gooing out limit and see the IMA light comming on ?
Yes, LiBCM sets the assist/regen disable flags in the BATTSCI serial stream sent to the MCM. The MCM will always honor these requests, thereby disabling assist and/or regen when the battery isn't able to meet the user demand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #658 ·
i have just put the Insight for grid charge after it has been unused for the past 2 weeks as been on holiday, went out to check progress and was on 44% but noticed unusual reading are they something to worry about or just a glitch. High of 6.245 and low of 0.0
Background on how max(max()) and min(min()) are stored:
At each keyON, the max(max()) voltage is initialized to 0.0000 volts, and the min(min()) voltage is initialized to 6.5535 volts. Then, each time LiBCM successfully reads all cell voltages, the data stream checksum is verified, and if valid then both values (max(max()) and min(min()) are checked and updated if there is a new outlier cell voltage.

In the latest firmware, if for some reason LiBCM is repeatedly unable to read cell voltages (noise, broken wire, unplugged connector, etc), then these values never update (i.e. they stay at their keyON letter values (e.g. H.HHH or L.LLL).

In previous firmware versions, it's possible that LiBCM would store incorrect outlier values if valid data wasn't received.

You should see if the problem persists when this firmware is loaded.

un plugged grid charger started car and then replugged in.
As @retepsnikrep mentioned, your cells are quite unbalanced. If they weren't like that before you let the car sit, we need to understand why that much deviation has occurred while the car sat unused. The first thing we need to do is determine each cell voltage:
0: Turn key to OFF.
1: Install the firmware I linked above (and relinked again here)
2: Connect a computer to LiBCM's USB port
3: Open the Arduino Serial Monitor
4: Type $DISP=CELL and press enter
5: Turn key to ON.
6: You should start seeing QTY48 cell voltages on the Arduino Serial Monitor. Copy this data into a text file and send it to me so I can analyze the extended keyOFF behavior in your car.
 

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Linsight Designer
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Discussion Starter · #659 ·
This is sort of related to LiBCM. I'm trying to find some more of the rubber gasket material that Mudder includes with the LiBCM kits. If you don't recall what I'm referring to, here is a picture of the stuff that Mudder sent us:

I'm struggling to find this stuff online. I need another couple of inches of this stuff for a related project. But I can't locate it online. Anybody know what it is called, or willing to share a link to where I can buy it?
uxcell 1/64:1/16" U channel

FYI: Here's the entire RevC LiBCM BOM. I haven't pushed the RevD BOM up yet, but when I do, it will be available here.
 

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Linsight Designer
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Discussion Starter · #660 ·
Update, this has worked great for idle A/C usage on lunch break. Instead of consuming an estimated 20% SOC/hr, I consume only approximately 2% SOC/hr. (Year 2000 MT)
FYI: Fixing this issue (i.e. by increasing current resolution from 1000 mA to 50 mA) is the first thing on my list when I get back into firmware development... probably early July.

Peter has prompted me to post an update. All is fine: nothing to report on LiBMS itself. I've not seen or heard any voltage out-of-range events on 0.7.2 and particularly enjoy the sustained assist on long hills at low SoC. I usually keep the car plugged in so get the extra MPG from a full initial charge.

On the gauge cluster SoC issue, I've simply stopped looking at the Charge/Assist part of the display. I haven't found the need to monitor the 4x20 SoC actively in normal driving as this keeps within 40 to 60% as others have said.

Thanks again for an excellent solution, John.
Thanks for the update! FYI: Future firmware updates will allow those who leave the car plugged in when not in use (myself included) to modify their assist/regen behavior, such that the car only regens during braking. The goal is to make it no longer necessary to enable Calpod once the SoC gets too low (where the OEM behavior would be to recharge until the car gets up to 60% or so).

...

Update: I am back from my trip abroad. Full steam ahead on LiBCM RevD hardware starts tomorrow!
 
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