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Thanks John and Peter, for your analysis and replies. OK, first thing done. I configured my OBDIIC&C to show ELD this morning. Key on, everything else off: fluctuating between 5-6. Driving down the road with headlights on: fluctuating between 23-26. In autostop mode with headlights on, fluctuating between 20-22. I don't know if that is appropriate behavior, or not. This afternoon, on the drive home, I'll disconnect the white 3 wire connector on top of the ELD to see what happens. I assume that is sufficient for Peter's test, but perhaps I need to fully remove the ELD?
 

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OK, this afternoon I disconnected the ELD -- no change in background charge behavior, so I reconnected it. Then, on the rest of my ride home I noticed something else that I hadn't noticed before. The background charge only happens when the calpod switch is enabled! If I turn off calpod, then the background charge stops. I'm scratching my head on that one. (Just in case you were wondering, my calpod switch does work correctly. When enabled, I don't have assist or regen, except for this odd background regen.) Does that make sense, at all?
 

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When you say that I would need to remove LiBCM, do you mean pull it out of the car? Or actually disassemble everything?
 

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You'd need to pull it out of the car, remove the clear cover, then attach a cable to the male 0.1" connector below the Arduino PCB. No soldering required... you'd just plug in a cable (probably that I send you).
Sure. I can do that. Thanks!
 

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What is the accurate 12V battery voltage during this behaviour?
Do you have the white/green DC-DC wire snip?
I will need to get one of those cigarette lighter 12v battery monitors, as i don't think my obdiic&c firmware offers 12v monitoring anymore.

I have not cut the white/green wire, yet, as I have never really had 12v battery problems.
OK, something more than might be interesting. I purchased one of those 12v battery monitors that plugs into the cigarette lighter. This morning I drove to work (30 minute commute). Doesn't matter whether heat is on/off, headlights are on/off, or calpod switch is on/off (or any combination of those things), my 12v monitor showed my 12V rail at 14.2 volts the entire time. Again, my green/white wire has not been cut. I'll keep monitoring it for a few more days, but this might explain why I've never had 12V battery problems.
 

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There are a couple different ways to install a clutch switch. One runs both live and ground to the switch. The other runs live to the switch but the ground to the car's body.
I know they are comparable, function-wise, but would that make a difference in this case?
I don't think so, but in case it would matter, in my case I have my calpod switch using a positap connection into the the red clutch wiring. Then, ground on the switch is wired to a grounded bolt near the fuse box.
 

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Next time you have a moment in autostop, turn all your loads off and see if the voltage drops to 12.x. If not, then I believe Peter is correct: something is up with the 12 volt system that's (incorrectly) causing the ECM to request background IMA regen.
OK, did that this morning:


I made one mistake in the video, I said that nothing was on, just that the car was "key on". The car was fully turned on, just in autostop mode, which is clear from the flashing autostop indicator. I left it in autostop mode, as shown in the video, for almost a minute. And the volt meter never went below 14.x volts.

As I observed in the video, once I turned on the calpod switch in autostop mode, LiBCM didn't start charging. That behavior seems to require the engine to be running. Another thing I observed today, which maybe is to be expected, is that when LiBCM is doing this background charge, Bam on OBDIIC&C shows 0.0.

Regarding this 12V charging behavior, could this be related to the background LiBCM charging?
 

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If disconnecting and/or swapping out the ELD does not stop the overcharge, maybe swap out the MCM for an earlier firmware version, or even the ECM itself. If we had some CmdPwr signal data we would know if the ECM really is requesting this regen and at what ~level.
Do you guys think swapping out the MCM is still worthwhile? I do have a second Insight and could probably try swapping them on Sunday to see what happens.

I quite like the idea of the car slowly charging the pack on a long run. But of course then when you want to descend a hill or slow down etc controlled with regen you have no spare capacity. :)
I like your philosophy of acceptance. :) During this morning's commute, I thought about my options:

1. I can resort to using my headlights all of the time. I suppose that driving with my headlights on would cause a smaller MPG hit than allowing the car to background regen all of the time.

2. However, since this only happens when my calpod switch is enabled, I think the better option is to revert to my pre-calpod switch days and only use the calpod when really needed, as opposed to leaving it on for my entire stretch of highway commute.

3. If Mudder is able to write some code for me to measure CMDPWR, perhaps further progress will be made in tracking this down.

4. If I bought IMAC&C, would this completely replace my calpod switch? And would it have success in stopping this background regen?

Thanks!
 

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Update: It seems like either there are some other scenarios when the Insight decides to charge the 12V battery, or my car's system is truly just flaky. Driving home today, I pulled off the freeway and just happened to glance at LiBCM and my 12V battery monitor. My 12V battery was not getting in charged in idle stop mode:

Motor vehicle Automotive tire Gadget Gauge Gas


Only two things come to mind that were different from last week: it is much warmer today. Today, it was about 63F (17C) degrees outside when I took this picture. It was about 15F (-9C) degrees when I took the video on March 10th. LiBCM SOC was lower today, when I noticed this, compared to back on March 10th.

A few minutes after speeding back up, the 12V monitor again showed 14.3V.

-Bryan
 

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Today, I observed a few moments when my 12V was not getting charged and I was driving down the road. I paid close attention to LiBCM during this time and toggled my Calpod switch. With the calpod switch enabled, I had -1 amps on LiBCM. Turning off the calpod switch, the LiBCM amps when to +0. Turned calpod back on, and the amps returned to -1. All through this, the 12V battery was not being charged. I definitely think that there must be some ambient temperature component to whether the 12V is getting charged -- it is another warm day here in Iowa.
 

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I have an update on my LiBCM background charging issue. Today, I finally got around to swapping the MCMs on my two Insights. As it turns out, both Insights have the same version MCM: 070. However, after swapping in the MCM from my other Insight, I don't get any background charging with the Calpod switch enabled and headlights off! This would seem to narrow it down to:

1. Something bizarre about my MCM.

The MCM from my second Insight doesn't have the 40% current hack, so it could also be:

2. Something related to my 40% current hack board.
3. Something related to my soldering job on the 40% board.

Anybody have a hunch about whether #2 or #3 have any chance of being the culprit here? I need to think through the best way to further narrow this down. I'm more than willing to desolder my current hack board and solder it to this second MCM if anybody believes the problem lies 100% with the MCM, itself.

@mudder I'm guessing that this observation negates the need for you to write code for measuring the CMDPWR signal?
 

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Also your symptoms seem temperature related and the DC-DC output voltage adjusts based on engine coolant temperature, is that a factor in your particular case? Maybe disconnect that wire and see what happens.
Hi Peter, I think your question about temperature related issues is asking about the 12V battery charging, right? If so, yes that does seem temperature related. I seem to be observing my 12V charging more constantly in colder weather. In warmer weather, the 12V charging is less constant. I'm not clear, however, on what wire you are suggesting that I disconnect. Can you please clarify that and what I should be looking for?

If the same behavior you describe in #338 persists, (temporarily) send me your MCM... I'll (temporarily) send you a backup, if needed.
Hi John, same behavior. Last night I put my original MCM back into my LiBCM car, but with the current hack PCB switches all set to "off". LiBCM firmware was uploaded with current hack disabled. In this scenario I'm not getting the background charge with Calpod switch enabled and headlights off, so it is identical to the result I get with the MCM from my other Insight.

I'm a little unclear, at this point, on what this is telling us.

Still, I think this means that you would like to me mail you my MCM. Do you want it mailed with the current hack board still soldered on?

-Bryan
 

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Thanks for the update, John! I'm glad that you are seeing similar behavior to what I'm seeing when that same MCM is in my car. If you end up desoldering the current hack board for further testing, can I ask that you leave it disconnected from the MCM? If you end up not being able to figure out what is going on, I'll probably try soldering the PCB on to my other MCM in the hopes that I don't get the same behavior and then I'll just permanently swap my two MCMs from my two Insights, leaving the odd MCM in my non-LiBCM car.

Thanks!
Bryan
 

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I found another MCM that exhibits this same issue, so I'm sending yours back. I'll continue troubleshooting with my MCM.

I figured out the issue. Details to follow once I figure out the firmware solution.

Thanks! Can't wait to hear the scoop.

-Bryan
 

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The OEM SOC isn't functioning correctly at this time. See:
 

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Update to @joeaax1j: I found another MCM that exhibits this same issue, so I'm sending yours back. I'll continue troubleshooting with my MCM.

I figured out the issue. Details to follow once I figure out the firmware solution.
@mudder I haven't heard any more on this. Did you fix this already? On Sunday, I swapped back in my oddball MCM with the 40% current hack (the one that I had mailed you), and then I upgraded to 0.7.4. I've now driven the car for two days and the background charging issue has not returned. I'm hoping that 0.7.4 includes the fix. Otherwise I'm at a loss to explain why the problem has gone away.

-Bryan
 

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Mudder, I'm discovering something that I haven't noticed before. This is with my oddball MCM where I had the forced charging when calpod enabled issue. You addressed that in the firmware and that problem has gone away. Now that I no longer have the constant forced background charge, I think I'm now having the opposite behavior. When calpod is enabled, it seems to slowly discharge. I suppose I never noticed this before the last week, because my MCM was always charging. But on lone drives with calpod enabled, I now see my SOC on the 4x20 display slowly drop. Today, for example, with calpod enabled, it went from 63->60 over a 25 minute span. I took a debug and you can see the voltage numbers slowly drop. Maybe this is typical behavior? Or perhaps this is something not being address by your intermediate fix that will be addressed later? Thoughts?
 

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Mudder, as I ponder what I want to do regarding faster charging and the final revision PCB, I dug up this post where you mention what grid chargers you would offer. You wrote:

For the general LiBCM release I will offer the following grid charger options:
-The existing 450 mA grid charger (included in LiBCM purchase price). Charges EHW5 in ~7.5 hours.
-A new 2100 mA grid charger (for an additional $175). Charges EHW5 in ~1.5 hours.
Are the above times for charging from 0%-100% or for some other range? Also, in your above post you mention that if we limited ourselves to a 1 Ah grid charger, we could probably stick to the current revision board. If we were able to locate such a grid charger, what would its charge times be?

Thanks!
 
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