Honda Insight Forum banner
1101 - 1120 of 1157 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
404 Posts
I looked through the 2021 Honda Insight user manual and indeed it does mention changing the behavior or even having the car not start when it's too cold. I believe if the issue is only when it was negative 30 C or more than it would say extremely cold. It does recommend a block heater for "extremely cold" starting. Unfortunately, we don't have the exact specs for this battery. We know it's closer to the CMax than the blue energy EHW5 modules.
 

Attachments

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
4,479 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,102 ·
Hmm. Sorry, not trying to get us sidetracked here, but are you referring to the temperature of the battery? Or the ambient outside air temperature? Hopefully this is battery temperature.
Battery temperature.

...

We can discharge the battery (at lower currents) when it's below freezing, but charging the battery below freezing causes irreversible lithium plating at the interface boundary (inside each cell). The amount of permanent damage to the cells is a function of the charge rate. So in general, yes, you can charge below freezing, but the charge current magnitude will drastically decrease cell life.
 

·
Engine-Off-Coast
Joined
·
2,734 Posts
Okay today I got P1445 in my LiBCM car. I was working on the LiDisplay firmware yesterday, so initially suspected that had something to do with it, but now I'm thinking it's the MCM or maybe the contactor went bad. Will try to diagnose this weekend.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Okay today I got P1445 in my LiBCM car. I was working on the LiDisplay firmware yesterday, so initially suspected that had something to do with it, but now I'm thinking it's the MCM or maybe the contactor went bad. Will try to diagnose this weekend.
I got the P1445 a few days ago right after loading the latest firmware v0.8.4f, cleared it with OBDII C&C and so far it hasn't come back.
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
4,479 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,105 ·
From the service manual, the conditions for P1445 are:
"The difference between the voltage on the MPI module side and the battery module side is 37 V or more for at least 2 seconds after the bypass contactor is turned on."

So LiBCM is spoofing both of these voltages:
-"voltage on the MPI module" is the signal 'VPIN', which is the ORG/ORG wire you cut and route through LiBCM
-"voltage on the battery module" is the MCMe connector, which is the WHT/WHT & RED/RED wires you connect to LiBCM.

To save power when the car is off, LiBCM lets the MCMe connector voltage float up to the actual pack voltage.** Then, when we turn the key on, LiBCM quickly pulls the MCMe connector voltage down to whatever the 'spoofed' voltage should be.

**If we were to continue spoofing the pack voltage when the car is off, that would constantly consume up to 1008 mW, which by itself would drain a fully charged 48S 5AhG3 pack in 27 days... so obviously we can't do that.

So instead of constantly spoofing MCMe voltage when the car is off, we can just spoof closer to the actual pack voltage when the key first turns on. That way the lowpass filter connected to MCMe gets to the spoofed voltage faster (i.e. less than 2 seconds).

...

I've added a TODO to the firmware to fix this issue. Thanks for reporting.
There are going to be numerous changes to v0.8.5!
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
14,166 Posts
I don't think LiBCM has access to that. It can't distinguish between key-on and engine-on.
IIRC that info is in the METSCI B3 packets from the MCM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
I'm back in TN... ready to work on LiBCM again.

In regards to the various lithium self-discharge comments since my last post, I agree with @retepsnikrep that the modules were almost certainly at a low voltage when received. In general, a module "sitting on the shelf" isn't going to appreciably self discharge to a dangerously low level in less than a year... it's probably closer to three years before you really need to check (again, if the module is unplugged).

...


The P1576(12) issue you're seeing is a known issue. I think it's fixed in the latest prerelease firmware. Give that code a try and let me know if the issue persists.


I'm not 100% sure I understand the question, but the P1576(12) error is due to a mismatch between the IMA pack voltage as measured by the MCM, versus the pack voltage as measured by the BCM. LiBCM spoofs both signals, but there's a non-linear component that is fixed in the latest prerelease firmware (unless you say otherwise after testing it out).


The latest prerelease firmware resolves a non-linear error (that was treated an a constant offset in the old firmware). So basically when you regen hard, that causes the pack voltage to increase... which is when the P1576(12) issue is most likely to occur (with the old firmware).

One other thing that could cause this issue is if the high current cables between the modules are loose... due to how LiBCM measures the voltage, it's possible that the voltage drop across a loose wire would be measured by the MCM, but not by LiBCM.


The latest prerelease firmware prints out the user-configurable parameters on each powerup. Plug in a laptop, open the arduino serial monitor window, and save the log file to post here... note that you can drive around with the laptop plugged in to gather this debug data (so I can analyze it).


Can you post a video? There are certain conditions where the screen will "blank off" (i.e. when turning the key off, to display an alarm message, etc).
Sorry for the delay, I have been sick. I drove the car to work 3 days this week with no issues. It acted up again twice on Friday with a different trip involving steeper and longer hills. It appears on down hills, touching the brakes starts the pulsing with the display going off for a split second. If I don't touch the brakes all seems well. I reloaded the software today. Upon reloading it noticed the version was the same Ver 0.8.4 as I had loaded last weekend. Did not drive the car. Will take it to the hills I had problems with on Friday.
 

·
Registered
2003 Honda Insight
Joined
·
48 Posts
Hi everyone,
I have been running with the normal pack since late September after swapping out the Frankenpack. It's been wonderful! I now have a new issue, but not much time to troubleshoot for a few weeks and my OBD II scanner was stolen recently so no codes :( but I'll describe it best while it's still fresh in my mind.

It was colder this morning in SoCal, LiBCM display said the pack was at T=10C, which isn't terrible. It eventually warmed to more normal temperatures. I drove about 80 miles, mostly on the highway. The issue is that the IMA light would come on and I couldn't use assist or regen until a key off-on cycle, then it would always function properly for a anywhere between a few miles to 30 miles. This happened about 5 or 6 times. I didn't notice any cause and effect, like a bump causing a lose cable to shift around or bad ground wire. It would happen sometimes during assist or during cruising. The firmware I'm running was downloaded and uploaded a week ago.
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
4,479 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,113 ·
Thank you Mudder. Downloaded the very latest V 08.4f. Kept the computer plugged in with the data downloading and went for about a 30 mile drive over an assortment of hills. It worked flawlessly! Thank you again Mudder! Now to get Mudders MIMA and install it.
Thanks for the update. Keep me posted if the issue comes back.

Hi everyone,
I have been running with the normal pack since late September after swapping out the Frankenpack. It's been wonderful! I now have a new issue, but not much time to troubleshoot for a few weeks and my OBD II scanner was stolen recently so no codes :( but I'll describe it best while it's still fresh in my mind.

It was colder this morning in SoCal, LiBCM display said the pack was at T=10C, which isn't terrible. It eventually warmed to more normal temperatures. I drove about 80 miles, mostly on the highway. The issue is that the IMA light would come on and I couldn't use assist or regen until a key off-on cycle, then it would always function properly for a anywhere between a few miles to 30 miles. This happened about 5 or 6 times. I didn't notice any cause and effect, like a bump causing a lose cable to shift around or bad ground wire. It would happen sometimes during assist or during cruising. The firmware I'm running was downloaded and uploaded a week ago.
Without a P-code it's impossible to know what went wrong.
 

·
Linsight Designer
Joined
·
4,479 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,117 ·
That's a doozy.
P1440 probably isn't LiBCM-related... typically means phase current isn't balanced. Does the car have +40% hack installed? If so, is it @Bull Dog's simple PCB inside the MCM, or another version?

P1585 is related to P1440... and also means the three phase motor currents aren't balanced.

P1648 means LiBCM isn't sending data to the MCM (or the MCM isn't properly receiving it).

...

First thing I'd do is spray some contact cleaner into all the connections on the IMA harness.
Next I'd make sure all three phase current sensors are working properly.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,142 Posts
Yea it has current hack and voltage spoofing. The plan is to clean all the connectors and plug them back in, and if it persists, turn off 40% hack and voltage spoofing to see if it helps. I know Natalya was having this issue. I think swapping the IGBT modules fixed the problem didn't it?

Also, was nice seeing you @FlyingHood395. It's been a while.


Automotive parking light Car Land vehicle Automotive tail & brake light Vehicle
 

·
Engine-Off-Coast
Joined
·
2,734 Posts
Yea it has current hack and voltage spoofing. The plan is to clean all the connectors and plug them back in, and if it persists, turn off 40% hack and voltage spoofing to see if it helps. I know Natalya was having this issue. I think swapping the IGBT modules fixed the problem didn't it?

Also, was nice seeing you @FlyingHood395. It's been a while.
In my case I swapped the entire DC/DC Converter assembly and it made P1440 go away. The silver Insight w/ that issue had spent a few years in a mud puddle and there was some corrosion inside the IMA bay, so that may have had something to do with it.

In the IGBT there are 6 big MOSFETs, are those what go bad? Wondering if we can replace those in a failed IGBT.

@Balto Something you can try:
  • Reset codes
  • Clutch switch ON to disable IMA
  • Drive in low gear until you get above 2600 RPM
  • Clutch switch OFF to enable IMA
  • Floor it

Does it assist without CEL? If so then it might be the same IGBT problem I had in the silver car. I only got CEL if I used assist with lower RPMs (like 2200 or less). Not exactly sure where the cut-off was.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
685 Posts
I'm still not able to update to V0.8.4f, I followed John's latest link he recently posted, I'm including the screenshot this time, the odd thing is that I can load the older versions all the way to 8.4 without any issues. see screenshot below.
I've went back to V7.5, V7.8 and V8.4 without any issues, just want to know if anyone else had the same issues or if there is a setting that needs to be changed for this update.
Font Screenshot Tints and shades Pattern Rectangle
 
1101 - 1120 of 1157 Posts
Top